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Need Help In Regards To 400kw Setup

SLYDA

By SLYDA,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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SLYDA Community Regular

SLYDA

Posted
Posted

Hi,

I have a PowerFC Currently installed in my car, however I also have a Microtech LT12S with the Piggyback Module. I'm wanting to hit as close as to 500HP as I can this time on my new build. Now I know the Microtech's cold start is a complete bitch, but have heard they make more power and are easier to tune? Would I be better off using the Power FC (which also has the electronic boost controller) or install and get tuned the Microtech?

Now the car has a GT30/40

High Mount Manifold

Forged Motor with ARIES Pistons 40thou Oversized (87mm)

Tial 44MM Wategate

Pacemaker Dump Pipe

HKS Exhaust (think its 4")

740CC Nismo Side Feed Injectors

Tomei Poncams (256 Duration)

Bosch 040 (intank)

Splitfire Coils

Greddy Adjustable Cam Gears

Electric thermo fan setup

Electronic Water Temp Controller

Turbosmart Stage 3 BOV

Now as for the turbo I know this turbo is rated at 600HP but realistically may it be to small to reach this goal? And currently the motor is out of the car so i'm also wondering if I should do the rods or will the motor handle 500HP without them?

Thanks for your advice :thumbsup:.

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paulr33 Grand Master

paulr33

Posted
Posted

over complexified +1

whats the point of two ecu's?

there is no reason the microguess will make more power than the powerfc or any other ecu

it all comes down to the tune, how it's setup and how well the tuner can tune the tune of the tune and adjust the tune

ie: the power is in the tune - not the ECU

GTScotT Grand Master

GTScotT

Posted
Posted

+1, changing the ecu wont get you closer to the power you want, changing tuner might.

I am assuming this hasnt been built or tuned yet. So I would recomend rods and a crank collar + jun oil pump or similar to proceed. Forged pistons are not the only thing you need to reliably get the RB to 400rwkw.

Your head will also struggle to see that, so a port job and potentially a better inlet manifold will also be in order.

GL

SLYDA Community Regular

SLYDA

Posted
  • Author
Posted
+1, changing the ecu wont get you closer to the power you want, changing tuner might.

I am assuming this hasn't been built or tuned yet. So I would recomend rods and a crank collar + jun oil pump or similar to proceed. Forged pistons are not the only thing you need to reliably get the RB to 400rwkw.

Your head will also struggle to see that, so a port job and potentially a better inlet manifold will also be in order.

GL

Fair enough, Id rather keep the PFC (I love that thing haha) I bought it brand new 3 years ago and it has the electronic boost controller and has NEVER given me any problems.

A set of Eagle rods is only $650 or so, and a crank collar welded to the crank i've been quoted $300 I cant afford $1500 for an oil pump so may have to make do with upgrading to a N1 Oil Pump instead. :thumbsup:

Jap_Muscle Mentor

Jap_Muscle

Posted
Posted

i was just crunching numbers and the 35r is rated at 700hp with a 1.06 housing.

700hp = 521.9893kw @ flywheel

15% drivetrain loss (usually more on bigger hp cars) = 391.491975rwkw

and thats at 100% efficiency which never happens. alot of people claim 39xrwkw on a .82 housing but the numbers dont seem to back it up. who really knows =[

drag-on silvia Rising Star

drag-on silvia

Posted
Posted

That turbo won't get close to 400 in a fit. And my advice is don't do things by halves at that power level. Build the engine properly with the best gear you can. Make sure you have a good exhaust manifold (china copy is gonna last about 5 seconds) and have it tuned by the best people available. Also can't see the stock rods holding 400kw. Possibly select a power goal that is more intune with your knowledge and abilities and also bank account balance or this will quickly end in tears

Harey Veteran

Harey

Posted
Posted
i was just crunching numbers and the 35r is rated at 700hp with a 1.06 housing.

700hp = 521.9893kw @ flywheel

15% drivetrain loss (usually more on bigger hp cars) = 391.491975rwkw

and thats at 100% efficiency which never happens. alot of people claim 39xrwkw on a .82 housing but the numbers dont seem to back it up. who really knows =[

Yup but the owner is talking about a "GT30/40" turbo.

It is possible to go above the official hp ratings of a turbo, although yeah not a good idea to plan that way.

SLYDA Community Regular

SLYDA

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Yeh is has a GT30/40 rated at 600HP with a 0.87A/R, I'm thinking 450HP at the wheels is a more realistic power goal.

What power levels are the standard rods good for anyway?

Edited by SLYDA
Spurdo Experienced

Spurdo

Posted
Posted
What power levels are the standard rods good for?

that really depends. from what ive seen, there seems to be a direct correlation between the power produced and the length of time that engine lasted before it stuck a leg out of bed, or other catastrophic engine failure.

nissan designed the stock rods to last indefinately at the stock power and tune (around 270hp). and if the engine wasnt modified and was maintained properly, it would likely do just that. anything done to increase the power figure will shorten the life of the rods, as well as any other parts subjected to the extra forces involved.

yes you could likely achieve 400kw with stock rods on an rb25 (i have seen it done) but this would effectively make your engine a ticking time bomb. just when will it spit the dummy? who knows... an hour, a week, a month, six months? i believe the general rule of thumb with a stock internal rb25 is dont expect any more than 300kw out of it if you want any sort of reliability.

another thing i dont understand is why people commonly replace stock pistons with forged pistons, and bolt them on to stock rods? your engine is only as strong as the weakest link. the pistons and rods are usually just that. so to go forged with one and not the other seems like an utter waste of time. yes your pistons can now handle twice the power, but your rods cant.. so you still cant safely go to higher power levels. can anyone explain why this is such common practice?

SLYDA Community Regular

SLYDA

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Yeh for the little cost I don't really understand that either. You can pick up a set of Eagle rods for about $650. (I didn't build this motor so I didn't choose the parts).

I really do think it would be money worth spent however.

Rolls Grand Master

Rolls

Posted
Posted
another thing i dont understand is why people commonly replace stock pistons with forged pistons, and bolt them on to stock rods? your engine is only as strong as the weakest link. the pistons and rods are usually just that. so to go forged with one and not the other seems like an utter waste of time. yes your pistons can now handle twice the power, but your rods cant.. so you still cant safely go to higher power levels. can anyone explain why this is such common practice?

my opinion was if you go new rod bolts and pistons you can rev it more due to the rod bolts being the weakest link (im not 100% this is just what I read), then you get the advantage of being able to resist more heat and detonation before destroying your ring lands etc from the piston melting, I think the rod bolts and pistons are much more of a weak point than the rods, that was my interpretation anyway, I might be completely wrong.

So you can safely go to higher power levels with these, just not as high as with rods as well, the fact that rods aren't exactly that expensive compared to a rebuild and pistons etc I don't really know why you wouldn't though.

ezy_09s Proficient

ezy_09s

Posted
Posted
Fair enough, Id rather keep the PFC (I love that thing haha) I bought it brand new 3 years ago and it has the electronic boost controller and has NEVER given me any problems.

A set of Eagle rods is only $650 or so, and a crank collar welded to the crank i've been quoted $300 I cant afford $1500 for an oil pump so may have to make do with upgrading to a N1 Oil Pump instead. :(

I wouldnt call an N1 pump an upgrade either..if you like playing russian roulette , go for it...i can even sell you my N1 pump.

NYTSKY Grand Master

NYTSKY

Posted
Posted
Your head will also struggle to see that, so a port job and potentially a better inlet manifold will also be in order.

Inlet manifold yes, porting not really needed but will help.

I know of a stock 25 head flowing 500rwkw :P

The 3040 wont see 400kw. 35R or T04Z will get you there.

coaster Proficient

coaster

Posted
Posted

My old 33 had a Garret 3040. I was running 25psi on high boost and that was 346rwkw. It had a heap of head work and other modifications too. That was more than enough power for me and any more would have made the car even more useless than it was. It was pretty dangerous if there was even a hint of moisture on the roads.

If you want more you would be much better off getting a bigger turbo.

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