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[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

Lithium

By Lithium,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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GTScotT Grand Master

GTScotT

Posted
Posted

No. It would be good for an unopened motor also, of any variety IMO.

They are about 20 years newer than the 2860, think about that in general technology terms and it should make sense why they are out performing the old stuff.

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Lithium
Lithium

Hi all!   I've not really been active on this forum for some time and although I lurk in to read bits and pieces of interest I don't really think of this as a forum I'm part of but I once was and I di

R32 TT
R32 TT

Haha - yeah it could use some more boost Simon..  I'm sorry I've not put up Motec logs in the past for those who've wanted to see. Back at the time I did a bit of comparing because I did more or

Full-Race Geoff
Full-Race Geoff

mr skidz, your posts are coming off as trolling at this point.  do EFR people go into precision threads and talk about how great their mates setup is, but wont give any details??  whilst complaining t

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Tonba Rising Star

Tonba

Posted
Posted

Man, If I owned a car that could easily mount an EFR (like a GTR or something) I would be allllll over them I think they are awesome turbos, despite them looking a little ugly...

The fitment on something like an EVO is such a pain.. I'm in the process now of TRYING to figure out how to mount one... but because they are so bulky, its difficult. In something like a GTR, it would be epic!

GTScotT Grand Master

GTScotT

Posted
Posted

Man, If I owned a car that could easily mount an EFR (like a GTR or something) I would be allllll over them I think they are awesome turbos, despite them looking a little ugly...

The fitment on something like an EVO is such a pain.. I'm in the process now of TRYING to figure out how to mount one... but because they are so bulky, its difficult. In something like a GTR, it would be epic!

Nothing a simple manifold cannot fix. Y so srs?

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Man, If I owned a car that could easily mount an EFR (like a GTR or something) I would be allllll over them I think they are awesome turbos, despite them looking a little ugly...

The fitment on something like an EVO is such a pain.. I'm in the process now of TRYING to figure out how to mount one... but because they are so bulky, its difficult. In something like a GTR, it would be epic!

If you get the newer external gate housings it should fit no problem. 4cyl manifolds are easily made/modified.

I am in the same boat once the evo7 is run in, I would like to push the 2.3 stroker to its limits, but lag is a bummer.

Tonba Rising Star

Tonba

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you get the newer external gate housings it should fit no problem. 4cyl manifolds are easily made/modified.

I am in the same boat once the evo7 is run in, I would like to push the 2.3 stroker to its limits, but lag is a bummer.

If your referring to the Tial housings... they are good, but you loose twin scroll. Which is kinda what you want on a single turbo 4cyl... If not, you should just save yourself money by getting a precision.

Fitting the T4 divided is not that simple. Not for a daily driver anyways. The CHRA is longer then the generic Precision or Garrett offering, and so is the turbine housing. Add this in with the bulky compressor cover, and it is a real struggle to fit downlow.

1. You need to notch the gearbox mount

2. If your keeping the A/C in the stock location (I'm currently looking into relocation or replacement with electric), the radius on the dump pipe would be and is horrible.

Mounting internal (or external gate) in high mount configuration has its own issues;

1. Your moving a significant amount of weight HIGHER in the front of the car. It doesn't promote good handling.

2. The 'lower intercooler pipe' or turbo to intercooler pipe has increased length over a low mount, thus kinda defying the whole point of using an EFR - Loosing transient response

The actual construction of the manifold isn't that hard, its more how everything sits. If you can manage to relocate the A/C to give you a better radius on the dump pipe, it would be perfect....

Edited by Tonba
bigmikespec Veteran

bigmikespec

Posted
Posted

I initially though they were airwerks due to the fact the FMW compressor wheels are apparently the same wheels as EFRs.

But then I saw the pic of what they actually run, which looks to be a custom casting.

borg-warner-turbochargers-used-in-the-iz

Anyone found out if we can get these yet?

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

I can tell you, keeping the split pulse is nowhere near as important as getting the Ti wheels in there. I will be going a single pulse manifold if nothing twin is available by then, as I believe the whole split V single debate is a bit of a crock.

Externally gating off the housing opens up so many more options, and if the compressor housing is bulky and gets in the way, it will be modified.

I will definitely be low mounting, whatever the turbo I end up with, but if you are seriously worried about a couple of kg mounted 6 inches higher, you have issues. The turbo fits where it fits, and it's my job to make it work.

Dump radius, I have yet to see a good one on an Evo. :P

Tonba Rising Star

Tonba

Posted
Posted (edited)

I can tell you, keeping the split pulse is nowhere near as important as getting the Ti wheels in there. I will be going a single pulse manifold if nothing twin is available by then, as I believe the whole split V single debate is a bit of a crock.

Externally gating off the housing opens up so many more options, and if the compressor housing is bulky and gets in the way, it will be modified.

I will definitely be low mounting, whatever the turbo I end up with, but if you are seriously worried about a couple of kg mounted 6 inches higher, you have issues. The turbo fits where it fits, and it's my job to make it work.

Dump radius, I have yet to see a good one on an Evo. :P

I disagree with a few things there. First off, the whole point of the EFR's is that a whole lot of little things come together to make a noticeable result. The compressor housing is bulky because of the integrated BOV. Now, sure you can modify it so the BOV doesn't exist, BUT the BOV outlet is positioned to 'vent' on the back side of the compressor blades. What this does is on release of throttle, the air vents onto the compressor wheel, to help keep the momentum of the assembly up. In combination with this, you have the light weight turbine AND compressor so the effect of the BOV is greater.

In addition to the above, the twin scroll housing assists in transient response as you do not have exhaust waves/pulses fighting against each other. This minimises losses here.

The light weight turbine is only a piece of the puzzle. Sure you might notice something with it only, but the effect is multiplied with the integrated BOV and twinscroll.

In regards to the high mount, while most people mounting the turbo this way in a street application, wouldn't notice the change in weight distribution, they WILL notice the increase in intercooler pipe length as it contributes to longer spool times and longer transient response time, in comparison to a low mount setup.

And I do agree, Evo's generally have poor dump pipe designs.. so where is the harm in trying to optimise this area?

Edited by Tonba
bigmikespec Veteran

bigmikespec

Posted
Posted

I can tell you, keeping the split pulse is nowhere near as important as getting the Ti wheels in there. I will be going a single pulse manifold if nothing twin is available by then, as I believe the whole split V single debate is a bit of a crock.

Externally gating off the housing opens up so many more options, and if the compressor housing is bulky and gets in the way, it will be modified.

I will definitely be low mounting, whatever the turbo I end up with, but if you are seriously worried about a couple of kg mounted 6 inches higher, you have issues. The turbo fits where it fits, and it's my job to make it work.

Dump radius, I have yet to see a good one on an Evo. :P

It is so nice when people just make perfect sense!

And Tonba one thing, I can tell you right now that if ppl weren't so scared of axial loads on the compressor wheel causing damage (however manufactured they are to sell product i.e. BOV's) then no one would have them.

Light weight wheels are the biggest part of the puzzle because it is minimising the rotating mass which would have the most direct effect on 'transient response' (just to quite the most recent buzz word going around here).

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

Agreed Michael.

I don't want a BOV on the compressor housing, or a stupidly long internal gate housing. I have a Tig welder handy which can place both exactly where they need to be to fit.

What I am looking for is the EFR pictured above, Tial housing and all. The shaft speed sensor can even get farked.

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bigmikespec Veteran

bigmikespec

Posted
Posted

The BOV is incorporated for only one reason, the shaft would fail if you didn't run a bov at a guess, too brittle.

Yes, not like the big beefy Airwerks series based on diesel applications...

Ever seen a BOV on a 600hp CAT engine? Fair enough they don't throttle on/off like we would.

I would only keep shaft speed sensor location just to make sure you didn't exceed recommended limits.

scotty nm35 Grand Master

scotty nm35

Posted
Posted

I would only keep shaft speed sensor location just to make sure you didn't exceed recommended limits.

And what, buy a new ECU just so I can log it? I would rather keep the cash aside for a new turbo if it lets go.

Limits were meant to be exceeded. ;)

Tonba Rising Star

Tonba

Posted
Posted

The BOV is incorporated for only one reason, the shaft would fail if you didn't run a bov at a guess, too brittle.

Borg Warner broke the existing turbocharger mold when it created the EFR line. One of the main goals was integrating other turbo system components into the turbocharger. This ploy can save time, money and headaches. The biggest integration is the inclusion of an integrated blow-off valve. No more bung welding on delicate intake pipes. The BOV is laid-out as a compressor recirculation device that redirects the charge air from the turbo's compressor outlet to a low-pressure point just before the compressor inlet, which really helps keep the unit spooled between shifts.

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