[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos

[zebra]

Someone is paying attention!

Ok, how about WRC cars...

Well

the antilag setup works almost like a blow off valve

dumps pressure from the intake into the exhaust manifold

They were also rebuilding the whole car and replacing turbos after every event

[Tonba]

Someone is paying attention!

Ok, how about WRC cars...

WRC rally cars don't need a bov because air on closed throttle is redirected into the exhaust manifold for the anti-lag system.

[scotty nm35]

Alex, everyone has differing opinions and theories, and sometimes mine are well out of the box, but I also prove mine on many occasions by making it work and getting the results. My theories have yet to let me down in practice, and I help build quite a few high power cars for customers. No-one is wrong in any situation, and if your 'Bolt-on' approach is easier by all means go for it. Remember, there is always a better way though.

[Tonba]

This bloke!

The whole point of the turbo speed sensor is so you can make sure where on the compressor map you are. Going outside of that compressor map is for people that have dyno queens, or run some sort of ice box for drags, as it superheats the air, reduces effency and increases chance of engine damage.

[bigmikespec]

Borg Warner broke the existing turbocharger mold when it created the EFR line. One of the main goals was integrating other turbo system components into the turbocharger. This ploy can save time, money and headaches. The biggest integration is the inclusion of an integrated blow-off valve. No more bung welding on delicate intake pipes. The BOV is laid-out as a compressor recirculation device that redirects the charge air from the turbo's compressor outlet to a low-pressure point just before the compressor inlet, which really helps keep the unit spooled between shifts.

I think you mean innovation.

They haven't done anything amazing they have just allowed Joe Average buy a turbo with all the fancy stuff for a cheap price (in comparison to a real motorsport turbo that retail around $10k).

You keep reading of the catalogue you need to think about what the actual turbocharger is doing and what is happening to the air.

[Tonba]

-sigh-

If you guys on actually care for all the technology offered in this package.. why bother for such an expensive turbo with barely any results... Why not just got for a proven Precision, which happen to make the light switch power your interested in, all for a low cost... AND no real mounting issues....

[scotty nm35]

The whole point of the turbo speed sensor is so you can make sure where on the compressor map you are. Going outside of that compressor map is for people that have dyno queens, or run some sort of ice box for drags, as it superheats the air, reduces effency and increases chance of engine damage.

Oh crap, FP don't have compressor maps... Whatever would you do in that case?

The sky is falling...

[scotty nm35]

Why not just got for a proven Precision, which happen to make the light switch power your interested in, all for a low cost... AND no real mounting issues....

Just ceramic bearing failures.

Been there tried that...

[bigmikespec]

This is good discussion! Please let us keep it light hearted (as it is now).

[Tonba]

Oh crap, FP don't have compressor maps... Whatever would you do in that case?

The sky is falling...

FP make good street turbos, and the best 'bolt-on' solution for a number of make and models.

But personally, I just don't know where mine is (on compressor map), which is why I run it on such low power on track. I just want consistent power. I think FP make great compressors, but it frustrates me they done provide compressor maps. Oh not to mention that it annoys me about the turbine side and dump pipe design...

You can hardly call FP in the same league as EFR, ESPECIALLY in motorsport applications.

[Tonba]

Just ceramic bearing failures.

Been there tried that...

Garrett then? Or FP as you suggested??

Still cheaper then EFR.

[scotty nm35]

I run Garrett and recommend them whenever possible.

What I am after is a cheaper EFR without the bling. I only want the turbine/shaft preferably, shoved into a Garrett GTX core.

If Garrett release a Ti wheel, BW will have missed their chance of a lifetime. No skin off my nose.

[zebra]

well I'll be sticking with my Kando/Hypergear hybrid mongrel for a little while.

Unless it is a complete dog of a thing

[ARTZ]

FP make good street turbos, and the best 'bolt-on' solution for a number of make and models.

But personally, I just don't know where mine is (on compressor map), which is why I run it on such low power on track. I just want consistent power. I think FP make great compressors, but it frustrates me they done provide compressor maps. Oh not to mention that it annoys me about the turbine side and dump pipe design...

You can hardly call FP in the same league as EFR, ESPECIALLY in motorsport applications.

Why do you need a comp map....wouldn't a IAT/EGT sensor combo and a tune pushed to the limits of diminishing returns be enough to tell you if you are in its "efficiency zone"...?

[scotty nm35]

Why do you need a comp map....wouldn't a IAT/EGT sensor combo and a tune pushed to the limits of diminishing returns be enough to tell you if you are in its "efficiency zone"...?

Correct, and be much more accurate than a made up map to suit a made up application.

Every engine will behave differently, depending on what you have in the way of restrictions to flow. After all, boost is only a measure of restriction.

[Lithium]

You can hardly call FP in the same league as EFR, ESPECIALLY in motorsport applications.

NONE of the alternatives mentioned are in that league though - so that doesn't really say too much. FP don't release compressor maps but there is enough info out there to get a reasonable idea of what the different compressors flow like where, definitely enough to get an idea of where each sit in the scheme of things, lack of compressor maps don't hurt Precision and to be fair I suspect 90% of people here don't really pay attention to comp maps or other related info and dynamics when choosing turbos.

FP have some epic turbos, Garrett also suffer the same lack of twin scroll housing etc stuff you are complaining about - funnily enough most of the same housing options are available to both. The FP Black is a pretty awesome turbo, have you actually had it running and tuned yet?

[scotty nm35]

Garrett just released quite a few new twin scroll housings, what you on about Lithium?

[Tonba]

The FP Black is a pretty awesome turbo, have you actually had it running and tuned yet?

Yes it is an awesome turbo. I haven't run it on my new setup, only my old 2.3L. We didn't run it too hard, only 23psi in which it made a very lazy 300kW on e85.

Spool was really good for a turbo its size, but transient response wasn't the best... Journal bearing turbo..

[bigmikespec]

I run Garrett and recommend them whenever possible.

What I am after is a cheaper EFR without the bling. I only want the turbine/shaft preferably, shoved into a Garrett GTX core.

If Garrett release a Ti wheel, BW will have missed their chance of a lifetime. No skin off my nose.

I am inclinded to agree. If I had my choice again I would have gone Garrett, but at the time they didn't have the range in the GTX series or the range of housings.

[Lithium]

Yes it is an awesome turbo. I haven't run it on my new setup, only my old 2.3L. We didn't run it too hard, only 23psi in which it made a very lazy 300kW on e85.

Spool was really good for a turbo its size, but transient response wasn't the best... Journal bearing turbo..

Oh you have the non-DBB one - for some reason I thought it was the DBB version. I've only experienced the 82HTA compressor in a twin scroll GT3582R HTA setup and that was really really impressive response for the power it was making, "only" a pump gas setup too making around 500whp (DD rolling road style) on a 2litre. GTX I feel is more miss than hit given how far behind Precision and FP they were in releasing their technology, most the FP wheels offer better flow versus response - though now they've raised their prices (when GTX came out the HTA were cheaper) there seemed pretty much no point bothering with the GTX range, though now if you want an HTA with a non-plastic bearing cage it's pretty expensive.

For RBs the EFRs are easily the best, they aren't particularly hard to fit big singles - not a lot more expensive considering the performance, and strong as anything... I find it weird that people have issues with the extra bits, they perform and save other bits of expense... especially if you are building a new setup. Not having to fabricate a place to fit a BOV, and buying the BOV in the first place definitely will save some coin and space and I don't mind the look of them, I reckon they look pretty serious business as opposed to yet another Garrett/Honeywell stamped compressor cover that could be anything from a T3/T4S up to a GTX3582R.