Oil Analysis - Who Can Read The Results

[Supa Steve]

Although id never recommend this you have this option that may just save the next set of turbo's you bolt to this engine that really in my opinion wont be long off throwing the shells out of it.

Run a brush through the turbo oil feed gallery to the main gallery on the filter side or get a piece of mig wire and see if you can feed it across. You could also remove the front oil plug under the water pump/above the oil pump and flush from the turbo feed back to the filter and out the front.

Edited December 10, 2010 by Supa Steve

[MrStabby]

FWIW the viscosity is down to what you'd expect of a -30 oil (around 11). -40s are around 15 and -50s are around 19. Redline 15W-50 is 19.6 out of the bottle.

EDIT: i think the report is showing the expected range as 16.3 to 21.4, they just have the symbols around the wrong way.

And:

* Aluminum (Al): Thrust washers, bearings and pistons are made of this metal. High readings can be from piston skirt scuffing, excessive ring groove wear, broken thrust washers, etc.

* Boron, Magnesium, Calcium, Barium, Phosphorous, and Zinc: These metals are normally from the lubricating oil additive package. They involve detergents, dispersants, extreme-pressure additives, etc.

* Chromium (CR): Normally associated with piston rings. High levels can be caused by dirt coming through the air intake or broken rings.

* Copper (CU), Tin: These metals are normally from bearings or bushings and valve guides. Oil coolers also can contribute to copper readings along with some oil additives. In a new engine these results will normally be high during break-in, but will decline in a few hundred hours.

* Iron (Fe): This can come from many places in the engine such as liners, camshafts, crankshaft, valve train, timing gears, etc.

* Lead (Pb): Use of regular gasoline will cause very high test results. Also associated with bearing wear, but fuel source (leaded gasoline) and sampling contamination (use of galvanized containers for sampling) are critical in interpreting this metal.

* Silicon (Si): High readings generally indicate dirt or fine sand contamination from a leaking air intake system. This would act as an abrasive, causing excessive wear. Silicon is also used as a anti-foam agent in some oils.

* Sodium (Na): High readings of this metal normally are associated with a coolant leak, but can be from an oil additive package.

[chuckie]

Hi Duncan ,I have mine done here in Perth pay $26, as i do 20,000 per oil change & GET BAGGED heap`s of this,

but again if your in DD & do good mile`s no need to,ANY WAY place that do Sample should INTERPRET ,

WESTTRAC & SHOULD BE AUSTRALIA WIDE.

Duncan if you look up my old post`s there in that ,

FUCHS SUPERSYN 5W-40 we had few bit`s put up,so hope that will be of some help,

i did post sheet up so all info on that should help you understand bit more about your`s

Cheer`s Chuckie.

[chuckie]

Theard is 5w40 Fuchs Synthetic Oil For Rb25

[Supa Steve]

I can understand bearing material wiping off in the 1st few hours of engine start.

Are you crazy? A properly built and clearanced engine ran on the correct viscosity oil should show no bearing material wiped from the surface. The 1st few hours of an engines life is critical as well as the fact crankshafts and rods do not turn on bearings, they turn on a film of oil. The bearing is used to provide the clearance for the oil.

Ive personally seen bearings from RB engines that have done 1000hp+ as well as 10,000klm of hell that could have been put back in the packet and sent back to ACL for a credit.

[The Dan]

Not good Duncan. Happy to give advise if I can. Shoot me a pm if you want me to call you and talk about the results tomorrow

[tricstar]

on the second to last line of comments it says:

"results are high for oil in-service time, but consistent with equipment run-in"

doesn't that say it all, the engine is 7 days old? you need to test again in so many km's to obtain a trend.

I've had my oil tested, on a new engine and whoever does the testing should be able to explain everything, don't think you can say its stuffed from one test.

[zebra]

Are you crazy? A properly built and clearanced engine ran on the correct viscosity oil should show no bearing material wiped from the surface. The 1st few hours of an engines life is critical as well as the fact crankshafts and rods do not turn on bearings, they turn on a film of oil. The bearing is used to provide the clearance for the oil.

Ive personally seen bearings from RB engines that have done 1000hp+ as well as 10,000klm of hell that could have been put back in the packet and sent back to ACL for a credit.

Thats nice, Ive also seen a 1200hp Aspirated small block throw a set of Oliver Billet rods out the side of a Dart block while just running the cam in.

So you are trying to tell me that even a well primed oil system will have perfect oil coverage on each and every bearing that is covered with assembly lube etc.

[urtwhistle]

Hi Duncan ,I have mine done here in Perth pay $26, as i do 20,000 per oil change & GET BAGGED heap`s of this,

but again if your in DD & do good mile`s no need to,ANY WAY place that do Sample should INTERPRET ,

WESTTRAC & SHOULD BE AUSTRALIA WIDE.

Duncan if you look up my old post`s there in that ,

FUCHS SUPERSYN 5W-40 we had few bit`s put up,so hope that will be of some help,

i did post sheet up so all info on that should help you understand bit more about your`s

Cheer`s Chuckie.

You obviously use Wearcheck in Malaga too Chuckie. Thats who I use for my car and work too.

regards

[chuckie]

Hi Chris no dude ,i have ME & 2 do my work ,

WELDING & SOME FAB WORK BRAD STACY,

MACHINE WORK TERRT STACY &

THERE OLD WORKSHOP ROTOMOTION.

OH & SAM @ NA CYLINDERHEAD`S,

But like to do what i can .

Cheer`s Chuckie.

[Duncan]

on the second to last line of comments it says:

"results are high for oil in-service time, but consistent with equipment run-in"

doesn't that say it all, the engine is 7 days old? you need to test again in so many km's to obtain a trend.

I've had my oil tested, on a new engine and whoever does the testing should be able to explain everything, don't think you can say its stuffed from one test.

Well...the context is that it is only 7 days old....but they are race days. The motor has done about 1000klm and is on it's 4th oil change and 4th oil filter. Any initial wear should be long gone.

Anyway, I spoke to the lab today.

Basically their take on it is very high bearing levels is.....looks bad but motor is not necessarily dead....change the oil and check again after next race day.

most likely cause of bearing damage is oil not OK (as shown by viscosity being 50-70% of rated, ie around 30 instead of 50.)

most likely cause of oil breakdown, given the quality brand and number of inclusions showing it is a quality synthetic, is fuel in the oil.

[Beer Baron]

i have done UOA before dunc. used to cost me around $40 they give you container and you send it off. never had much trouble interpreting the results as they were always good. doing the UOA was what convinced me to keep forking out the $$ for motul chrono oil. even after being really got (110C +) and having a trackday (sometimes 2) the oil was still excellent.

maybe think about a different oil? though if it is fuel contamination it won't solve your problem obviously.

fingers crossed the next test is brighter and it was just stuff from a new engine.

[MrStabby]

Basically their take on it is very high bearing levels is.....looks bad but motor is not necessarily dead....change the oil and check again after next race day.

most likely cause of bearing damage is oil not OK (as shown by viscosity being 50-70% of rated, ie around 30 instead of 50.)

most likely cause of oil breakdown, given the quality brand and number of inclusions showing it is a quality synthetic, is fuel in the oil.

What will you do to address the fuel issue? Will you use the Redline again?

[The Dan]

Sorry didn't get time to call you Duncan. Seems like you got it under control though.

Keep in mind, everyone, that ester based oils CANNOT be used with alcohol fuels.

I have had a Motul rep in my shop telling me if we run E85 or Methanol that we are not allowed to run their oil as it will damage it.

Redline uses the same ester base stocks so I assume they would be the same.

Are you running E85 Duncan?

[Duncan]

Hi Dan, no this is regular 98. Interesting reminder about E85 and oils though.

One question I still have for you.....do the bearing levels look high enough to assume the motor is dead/nearly so? ie should I pull it out and strip it to check?

I know its hard to guess on the interweb but just interested what you would do if you got that report.....

[The Dan]

If I had an engine with those results after the 4th oil change, I'd be pulling it down. The results we get are different to those ones. obviously lead is the top babbit layer and copper is underneath. Tin is the back shell material. High levels of lead and copper are a bad sign. High levels of lead during run in are ok but if you get copper, that means you are wearing through the top layer of the bearing which shouldn't be happening.

I would definitely NOT be taking it to another track day. I would bit the bullet and just pull the engine. You can save a lot of dollars if you do it now rather than later once it has completely failed.

[Duncan]

that was pretty much what i was thinking. ahh well its good not to be bored at xmas.

[PM-R33]

Hahaha that's the spirit!

[Duncan]

pulled the motor apart today, the the main bearings were f**ked although not spun yet, and the big ends were almost perfect (just some foreign damage, I guess as the mains died). Good call Dan

so 1 point to the oil analysis.

Does anyone have results for a motor just after run-in?

[zebra]

That was quick!

Sucks about the bearings though, how did the crank come out? Resuable?