Lambchop With A Renault Axis Here...

[PN-Mad]

That issue you can put down to the tuner not having enough experience with VQ's, and the fact your ecu isn't expecting the boost hit. Our stock ecu is fine, with Emanage, Fcon and whatever injectors you want to put in. Verified by Cihan, proven by me.

Yeah, no. Doesn't matter about boost or not. Your box is built right? So presumably its running a lot more line pressure than a normal stock box, or even a transgo'd one. Therefore your symptoms are greatly lessoned. The underlying problem is still there. Note that this appears only in manual mode, and not in auto.

Torque management values would obviously be different in your ecu to mine, as there is different characteristics, but essentially its the same problem.

Tell me what base fuel schedule your seeing as a Max compared to the stock Value?

[scotty nm35]

The airflow meter is maxed out so the ecu will give full line pressure. Of course it matters that the turbo ecu expects a ramp in part throttle power output at around 2-3k. An NA engine doesn't have that requirement but it would be nice to be able to adjust it I must admit.

My auto runs a Transgo kit, same as everyone else, and pressures are set by the kit. Yes I do have more clutch plates fitted to help transfer the power and prevent slip but these are not required if the original clutches aren't toast like mine were.

Base fuel schedule? You mean injector %? I can get that off the Informeter one day if you like, I doubt it would be much over 80%, just like a stock engine. Remember Alex, the stock ecu runs the engine until just before the airflow cut which is up there in stock injector duration.

[scotty nm35]

Note that this appears only in manual mode, and not in auto.

Sounds like your lockup clutch is slipping, that is caused by the auto computer pwm output and the small lockup clutch they fitted. In manual mode the converter wants to lockup constantly and there is no way it can the way it sags into lockup between gear changes. With 12v wired directly into the solenoid it holds well over 300kw on the dyno.

I don't run lockup on the street for this reason but I am trying to source a bigger converter and clutch, and an aftermarket auto controller. These will fix the issue and allow control over this pos RE5 box.

[Jetwreck]

That issue you can put down to the tuner not having enough experience with VQ's, and the fact your ecu isn't expecting the boost hit. Our stock ecu is fine, with Emanage, Fcon and whatever injectors you want to put in. Verified by Cihan, proven by me.

I agree with you on the ecu....you know my thoughts about the gearbox computer!

[bigkevracer]

So when you're done, are ID1000s still the best option if you want to tune on 98, leave headroom for e85, and only want to run some form of high flow?

Decided to stick with the easier high flow option for now.

[scotty nm35]

So when you're done, are ID1000s still the best option if you want to tune on 98, leave headroom for e85, and only want to run some form of high flow?

Decided to stick with the easier high flow option for now.

High flow turbo? Good call. I went backwards on mine, the old Sierra core was great and well set up for the stock stally. Now i'm back modding to gain back the response.

Go the 1000's, best option out there imo. You got a tuna picked out?

[PN-Mad]

Hey Scotty

I'll get a screen shot of the how the ECU sees the ramp up tonight when I get back to the software. Its just a real simple little table that I can adjust. What I can say is modifying that table only does nothing as to fixing the lag in between the changes- I tried it. That was down to the torque management table. The ECU sees base fuel schedule, and while its very closely related to injector duty cycle, it doesn't equal it. It's used in the algorithum with K fuel multiplyer to determine fueling. I'd be interested to see what the stock max BFS is compared to what it is now- if Cihan has the data. And K fuel multi too.

I don't know about maxed out AFM = High line pressure. Nothing in the software I can see shows that its related, but if you've done the testing then I'll believe it. I haven't maxed the AFM yet, but am close- within about .4 of a volt.

I had another thought, and its that Your all using piggybacks. So I don't know about tuning them, only the actual ECU. So maybe it doesn't effect you guys as much as me. What I do know is that if you drop big injectors in a motor and only use a fraction of their capacity, and drop the BFS to suit, it roots up your shift. Lucky I had some people to point me out where I could fix it in the software.

As for my tuner, It doesn't matter if he has VQ expereince or not. There is nothing special about my motor that means that only one person can do it. The general tuning conventions still remain. I went there for the tuners ability to tune. And hes bloody awesome at it. I'll stand by his ability any day. I do want to go back, do some low load work, and get another power run to see if the gearbox changes have changed anything in terms of power.

To sum up- If I dropped ID1000's in my car to run on 98, and had no way to tune the gearbox response, then it would be shit. If thats different for you guys running piggybacks, then thats great news for you- Use them!

[PN-Mad]

Fuel pump, there is a few 300l/min drop ins available now- you'd have to figure out if they are any good.

Read over this- should be L per hour.

per min- that would be a big ass pump

[bigkevracer]

High flow turbo? Good call. I went backwards on mine, the old Sierra core was great and well set up for the stock stally. Now i'm back modding to gain back the response.

Go the 1000's, best option out there imo. You got a tuna picked out?

Yeah thats what I figured. I'd love to dump a GTX in there and go to town, but at the end of the day its a wagon, and a road car, and I'd rather detune a bit for road response and reliability. Also the reason for a 98 tune initially... I do need practicality at some point.

Got a tuner picked out, a local one, and a couple of backups if necessary. Should be good once I get the Fcon in. Just trying to decide how much I need to do before I take it in for a tune.

[bigkevracer]

Read over this- should be L per hour.

per min- that would be a big ass pump

I was going to go Aeromotive, but for some reason I ended up with the Deatschwerks. The Aeromotive is 340lph when it gets enough power to it.

Wahlbro make one too now, but looking at the shape of it I don't think it'll be an easy fit in the standard cradle.

Might have to get the Deatschwerks in on the weekend finally so you can see!

[scotty nm35]

Hey Scotty

I'll get a screen shot of the how the ECU sees the ramp up tonight when I get back to the software. Its just a real simple little table that I can adjust. What I can say is modifying that table only does nothing as to fixing the lag in between the changes- I tried it. That was down to the torque management table. The ECU sees base fuel schedule, and while its very closely related to injector duty cycle, it doesn't equal it. It's used in the algorithum with K fuel multiplyer to determine fueling. I'd be interested to see what the stock max BFS is compared to what it is now- if Cihan has the data. And K fuel multi too.

I don't know about maxed out AFM = High line pressure. Nothing in the software I can see shows that its related, but if you've done the testing then I'll believe it. I haven't maxed the AFM yet, but am close- within about .4 of a volt.

I had another thought, and its that Your all using piggybacks. So I don't know about tuning them, only the actual ECU. So maybe it doesn't effect you guys as much as me. What I do know is that if you drop big injectors in a motor and only use a fraction of their capacity, and drop the BFS to suit, it roots up your shift. Lucky I had some people to point me out where I could fix it in the software.

As for my tuner, It doesn't matter if he has VQ expereince or not. There is nothing special about my motor that means that only one person can do it. The general tuning conventions still remain. I went there for the tuners ability to tune. And hes bloody awesome at it. I'll stand by his ability any day. I do want to go back, do some low load work, and get another power run to see if the gearbox changes have changed anything in terms of power.

To sum up- If I dropped ID1000's in my car to run on 98, and had no way to tune the gearbox response, then it would be shit. If thats different for you guys running piggybacks, then thats great news for you- Use them!

I'm not saying the tuner isn't good, (I have heard he's great) just that without VQ specific experience you will be paying for his learning curve, as I did.

Directly related or not, the AFM is the main source of load input data for the stock ecu. If the AFM is at 4.8v then the trans is definitely shifting at full line pressure. Further to that, it shifts fine tuned in limp mode, with the EMU setup as a standalone as the line pressure defaults to maximum. (There's just no kick down.)

[PN-Mad]

I'm not saying the tuner isn't good, (I have heard he's great) just that without VQ specific experience you will be paying for his learning curve, as I did.

Directly related or not, the AFM is the main source of load input data for the stock ecu. If the AFM is at 4.8v then the trans is definitely shifting at full line pressure. Further to that, it shifts fine tuned in limp mode, with the EMU setup as a standalone as the line pressure defaults to maximum. (There's just no kick down.)

AFM volts were the same if the shift was bad or good. My motor is working the same even if the gearbox is loose or slipping of if its locked up. I don't know the relationship between base fuel schedule, AFM volts, and K fuel multi. Line pressure is based off Base fuel schedule + RPM (as you can see in the table) not AFM volts. So its more related to load than actual airflow.

I think there must just be to many differences between piggyback tuning and Flash tuning. I don't know them.

I think we are all learning Uprev in Australia. One place in Perth has done a Turbo 350z, and one place in sydney has done some minor tuning with it on NA cars. I was in the Car with Yauvz, working through the tune- so we both learned ! Me definatly more than him! Price wise- well, I don't think another tuner could beat it.

[ironpaw]

AFM volts were the same if the shift was bad or good. My motor is working the same even if the gearbox is loose or slipping of if its locked up. I don't know the relationship between base fuel schedule, AFM volts, and K fuel multi. Line pressure is based off Base fuel schedule + RPM (as you can see in the table) not AFM volts. So its more related to load than actual airflow.

I think there must just be to many differences between piggyback tuning and Flash tuning. I don't know them.

I think we are all learning Uprev in Australia. One place in Perth has done a Turbo 350z, and one place in sydney has done some minor tuning with it on NA cars. I was in the Car with Yauvz, working through the tune- so we both learned ! Me definatly more than him! Price wise- well, I don't think another tuner could beat it.

Dunno, Cihan was pretty good price wise...

yes I know I know he's Melb only...

[PN-Mad]

So here is the Calculated load calculations. You set this up by doing a WOT run from low RPM till limit, then plug in the values at corresponding RPM. I don't really know the function it has in the overall algorithm.

Stock values provided.

From uprev:

Calculated Load

Axis = Engine RPM. Axis is static (not adjustable).

The ECU calculates the calculated load by dividing the current base fuel schedule into the value that is in this table for the given RPM.

Base load screenshot.docx

Edited March 16, 2012 by PN-Mad

[bigkevracer]

Ok I don't really understand this, so bear with me here...

I take it what you're saying Alex is the duty of the injectors has an impact on the severity of the shifts? So if the injectors are at a low duty, you get sloppy shifts?

So if I was going to stick with 98, I'd want to run standard or under 500cc injectors to keep them at 80-90% duty?

First I'm hearing of all this, so just trying to get my head around it. You're running 600-odd cc Deatschwerks, right Alex?

[bigkevracer]

nope, im running a turbosmart boost tee atm as a bandaid. really need that EBC.

Whats the problem? Wrong size hoses or you lost a restrictor?

[Jetwreck]

Ok I don't really understand this, so bear with me here...

I take it what you're saying Alex is the duty of the injectors has an impact on the severity of the shifts? So if the injectors are at a low duty, you get sloppy shifts?

So if I was going to stick with 98, I'd want to run standard or under 500cc injectors to keep them at 80-90% duty?

First I'm hearing of all this, so just trying to get my head around it. You're running 600-odd cc Deatschwerks, right Alex?

^^^^^^ that!

480cc with the right fuel pressure(14v so 54psi)should safely get you around 500 Hp at the crank and keep the duty cycle about 85%

Edited March 16, 2012 by Jetwreck

[scotty nm35]

Or 1000's on ethanol. Duty Cycle 80%. Haha

It doesn't change the duty the stock ecu is outputting though Craig. Are you running 54psi at idle?

[WAGON_BOY]

Whats the problem? Wrong size hoses or you lost a restrictor?

possibly the wrong sized hoses, i put back in the restricters but maybe in the wrong possition, basically it would only hold 15PSI but it felt like sluggish......

(i used 6mm for the main line and off the tee i used a 4mm hose.)

[bigkevracer]

^^^^^^ that!

480cc with the right fuel pressure(14v so 54psi)should safely get you around 500 Hp at the crank and keep the duty cycle about 85%

Cheers for that Craig. Sounds like I can get away without injectors until I go high flow, but I might need an adjustable FPR with a fuel pressure gauge? I have no way of measuring fuel pressure at present, but I'll be running a hard wired Deatschwerks pump.

possibly the wrong sized hoses, i put back in the restricters but maybe in the wrong possition, basically it would only hold 15PSI but it felt like sluggish......

(i used 6mm for the main line and off the tee i used a 4mm hose.)

Weird. Did you try 4mm off the main line?