What to do with R32 GTST RB20DET to get it into the low 12s in the 1/4 mile (400m)

[Roy]

Another aspect to perhaps consider is that with the RB20 a simple over bore and bigger pistons means you can easily have a 2.2L where as on an SR you need a crank.

Really though, how many RB or SR owners do more then exhaust/IC/boost... then maybe a small turbo upgrade. With the most common mods i dont think you are going to have too much trouble with the basic engine design of either engine, its not to say they dont exist though when your trying to build an 11 second car.

[Sydneykid]

Hi omg, this is the downloaded version of the recognition documents;

NISSAN 200 SX SPEC R GT Standard Specifications:

Make NISSAN

Family 200

Model Variant SX SPEC R GT

Car Series S15

Year 2002

Doors and Body Style 2D COUPE

Engine Size 2 litres (1998 cc)

Fuel System TURBO MPFI

Cylinders T4

Driven Wheels RWD

Std Transmission 6M

Optional Transmission

Standard Features Dual Airbag Package, Anti-lock Braking, Air Conditioning, Adjustable Steering Wheel, 16 Inch Alloy Wheels, Brake Assist, Body Kit, Compact disc player with 6 CD Stacker, Central Locking Remote Control, Engine Immobiliser, Limited Slip Differential, Leather Steering Wheel, Leather Trim, Power Mirrors, Power Steering, Power Sunroof, Power Windows, Radio Cassette with 4 Speakers, Rear Spoiler, Sport Seats

Optional Features

Dealer Options

No Cost Options

Bore and Stroke 86x86 mm

Power 147 KW

Torque 256 Nm

Weight to Power Ratio 8.73 : 1 kg/kW

Front Brakes DV

Rear Brakes DS

Wheel Dimension 6.5JJx16

Turning Circle 9.8 m

Compression Ratio 8.5

Final Ratio 3.692

Tank Capacity 65 litres

Exterior Length 4445 mm

Exterior Width 1695 mm

Exterior Height 1285 mm

Front Track 1470 mm

Rear Track 1460 mm

Wheel Base 2525 mm

Front Suspension Ind;McSt;CS;SB;

Rear Suspension Ind;MLS;CS;ARB;

Kerb Weight 1284 kg

Ground Clearance 113 mm

Seating Capacity 4

Highway Fuel Consumption 7

City Fuel Consumption 11

Towing Capacity 0 kg

Release Date 1/5/2002

Discontinued Date 1/12/2002

New Price (standard) 46490

Model Run [s15](May) Disc-d Dec

VIN Location Driver Side Eng Scuttle

Notice it says 256 nm.

Your turn.

[omg]

Sure, attached is a scanned image of the brochure for the australian delivered 200sx. You'll have to excuse me but I'd consider this somewhat more reliable in reflecting what Nissan claimed as the torque output than raw text posted to a message board. Hell, maybe what you've got is wrong and you haven't just changed it in an attempt to bolster a failing argument however what I can't understand is how you've never noticed the torque figure for a car which was sold in australia for about 8 years. You being an expert on the engine and all that

Brochure

How are you going writing up that list of parts needed for the valvetrain which would cost more than a stroker kit?

[Cubes]

RB20lagwagon,

He's probably too busy having a discussion with SK.. hehehe..

[Sydneykid]

Hi omg, be careful, I might know a thing or two about SR's, that even you don't.

This Nissan has one of our SR's in it....

and so does this one....

We are a bit busy, it's racing season. But I'll post up the necessary bits, to fix the inherent SR valve train weaknesses, shortly. Might post some inside the engine shots, you never know you might even learn something.

[Interloper]

I love those SR20 n/a Primeras!

[RBsileighty]

Sure, attached is a scanned image of the brochure for the australian delivered 200sx. You'll have to excuse me but I'd consider this somewhat more reliable in reflecting what Nissan claimed as the torque output than raw text posted to a message board. Hell, maybe what you've got is wrong and you haven't just changed it in an attempt to bolster a failing argument however what I can't understand is how you've never noticed the torque figure for a car which was sold in australia for about 8 years. You being an expert on the engine and all that

Brochure  

How are you going writing up that list of parts needed for the valvetrain which would cost more than a stroker kit?

I know you don't agree with him, but you can try useing some tact in your arguement. From what I've seen, he has always provided reliable information in the past. Maybe he should post the author and copyrights or something... regardless... keep in mind the way you respond is a reflection on your character.

[Sydneykid]

Hi omg, do you have an S15 brochure? I am perplexed, the recognition documents for S14 say 265 nm's and the recognition documents for S15 show 256 nm's. Did they loose 10 nm's with the new model? Or is Nissan the dyslexic one?

Do you really think I would bother changing something for 9 nm's, you have got to be kidding me. It's not worth the effort.

[omg]

Honestly Sydneykid, buggered if I know if you'd change it but based on my impression of you from this thread where even you have to admit you've played very fast and loose with the truth I have very little faith in your word. Harsh? probably but all I've got is what I see on front of me.

I should have a brochure at home somewhere, I know where the japanese one is but most of my other stuff is still sitting in boxes from a not so recent move. But no, it didn't lose any torque, if anything it gained a bit however Nissan states the torque and power numbers were the same.

RBSileighty - yep, I've been particularly tactless, don't disagree with you there. However it's not anything to do with disagreeing with him, more trusting that he is indeed presenting an honest opinion free of any agenda.

[Sydneykid]

Hi omg, as most people on this forum will tell you, I have no agenda, I just tell like I see it. If I have a point to make I will certainly use the facts that support that point of view, but they are the facts nonethless.

So, I give up where have I played "fast and loose with the truth"?

[omg]

Let me get this straight, quite apart from quoting incorrect torque numbers for the aus model, quite apart from the way you have selectively plucked numbers for your comparisons your contention is that for an SR20DET with aftermarket pistons and rods to make 300kw atw reliably you will have to spend more than the cost of a 2.0 CA stroker on the valvetrain?

Yeah, you've got an agenda whether you'll admit it or not.

[Sydneykid]

Hang on omg, I only quoted what Nissan supplied on the original application for recognition. I didn't make it up, lie about it or change the numbers to suite some mysterious purpose. If you check around you will find the S15 at 256 nm's quoted elsewhere as well. eg; the drive.com.au central register of vehicle specs quotes 256 nm's. So it's not just me who recognises that number.

As for selectively plucking numbers, excuse me! The discussion until your tactlessness (your words, not mine) appeared, was pertaining to the often held misconception that SR20DET's have more torque than RB20DET's and SR20DE's have more torque than RB20DE's. And that this was due to some inherent design advantage in the SR20's favour. I merely quoted torque outputs that disproved that. The fact that there are other torque (higher) outputs around proves my point, that Nissan's tuning makes far more difference than any inherent design advantage.

Bottom line, the more you quote differing torque numbers, the more you support my argument.

When I have an opinion I like to quote others, just so it is not misconstrued as being uniquely my opinion. This is from Mike Kojima...

"The shaping considerably reduced the weight of the valves which should give more rpm headspace before valves float and the classic SR20 rocker arm flies off."

More shortly.....

[Roy]

What are the best tyres for tryin got get a 11s out of an R32?

Friend was telling me BF Goodrich street radials are a good thing, was thinking baout getting doem R32 GTR rism for the back and seeing if my old bus can give a low 12 a nudge.

[Sydneykid]

Hi roy, Nitto 555's are popular and considered by many to be the leader in drag radial tyres. Munroe and Wilson use them, sorry but I don't know what Mario uses. The Croydon boys use Mickey Thopmson ET-Street tyres. They aren't radials though, so not eligible if you want to get into the HPI Drag Challenge.

The ultimate drag tyre, well my favourite drag car uses Goodyear drag slicks.

[Akela]

Just a question boys? Why are we looking at torque for quartermile cars? Yeah i understand for a track car u may want some nice torque figures, but usually as u increase ur power ur torque follows it usually not an issue!

I was going to say a ca with standard bootom ends should be able to pull a silvia into the 12's but i mean that more strength wise than performance building.

I drive a FWD with a ca in it, non turbo ca20 pistons with and stock rods, ran 13.3 at 111.5 mph, on slicks with those miles, 12.5???i think so! Thats only at 15psi with stock injectors and a malpassi! Don't underestimate the ca!

When u guys talk 12's to 11's u mean on slicks or street tyres? Cause if u do then yeah the ca may be pushing it, but the sr would also and i certainly think the rb would be to!

Also why do u guys say things like "would require between 250-270rwkw" to get 11's??? I which car? silvia or skyline, ar a horse and carriage? Its quite abstract to say that as a 700kg car with 270 kw would run 10's where as a R33 with 270kw's would run 12's to 11's?

Just food for thought?

[neil_se]

I think it was pretty clear from the question that we're talking about 1200-1350kg 180sx and r32s, not a 700kg FWD car. And it sounds like he would rather that was on street tyres as he said it will NOT be a drag car but a daily driver. There's a massive difference in requirements between a 12sec 700kg FWD on slicks and a 1300kg RWD on street tyres.

[Cubes]

Akela,

You will find the 1/4 and horsepower graph is not linear.

hence why the quote:

Also why do u guys say things like "would require between 250-270rwkw" to get 11's??? I which car? silvia or skyline, ar a horse and carriage

Driving on slicks is cheating anyway. If you can't do it on every day tyres why bother.

I find people who use slicks on a every day car with street suspension generally are only after the bragging right.

A little like NOS isn't it SK.. heheh

[omg]

"As for selectively plucking numbers, excuse me! The discussion until your tactlessness (your words, not mine) appeared, was pertaining to the often held misconception that SR20DET's have more torque than RB20DET's and SR20DE's have more torque than RB20DE's. And that this was due to some inherent design advantage in the SR20's favour. I merely quoted torque outputs that disproved that. The fact that there are other torque (higher) outputs around proves my point, that Nissan's tuning makes far more difference than any inherent design advantage"

Actually thats not quite true is it, well before I made any statements on the thread you had come up with your absurd statements like an SR would require such extensive work to the valvetrain that a stroker kit for a CA would be cheaper (you keep promising us some factual basis for this, we keep waiting), the fact that with pistons and rods the SR would stroll it in comfortably under the standard rev limit seems to have completely slipped your mind. You then followed this up with some gross distortions of fact regarding torque numbers. With all your comments about how you have "facts" to back up what you've seem to be very tardy in coming up with them

"Bottom line, the more you quote differing torque numbers, the more you support my argument"

lol, of course, when you use torque numbers it shows the RB20DE has more torque than the SR20DE but when it's shown to you that there are a string of SR20DE's making considerably more torque (not a little more, a shedload more) somehow they don't matter any more

"When I have an opinion I like to quote others, just so it is not misconstrued as being uniquely my opinion. This is from Mike Kojima..."

Oh, this is too precious, you quote one sentence out of ontext from an article near 17,000 words long and expect it to mean something? You've completely ignored what has been said in this thread and completely ignored what the author of the quote himself about the HLA's.

Hell, I'll have a go at the quote game, this one from Tomei's site

"Although hydraulic lifter that is used in stock engines of RB20, VG30 or CA18 are contributed in making it maintenance free, it be comes the hindrance of high-speed rotation interns of tuning the engine. Also, since hydraulic lifter cannot adjust its height, it is impossible to use high lift camshaft. Accordingly, the tuning range and performance of RB20, VG30 and CA18 were restricted by H-lifter"

Oh no, don't tell me that just as HLA's cause a problem in revving an SR beyond 7500rpm that they also might cause a problem in valvetrains using an HLA in bucket setup? Now, does this mean the problem is with the bucket or the HLA within it? And if the problem is with the HLA, what makes you turnaround and state that on an SR the HLA isn't a problem but instead blame the rocker arm design? And just for kicks, how about we pick a nice high revving motor like an F1 engine, which ones use rocker arms and which ones use a cam on bucket?

Fact is, when it comes to revving the RB, CA or SR the actual "problem" areas in the valvetrain are the same for all, the springs and the HLA. Fact is that if greater revs are required the parts requiring modification are basically the same and cost around the same (and a hell of a lot less than a CA stroker). And finally, fact is none of those engines are going to have a hell of a lot of difficulty hitting the 300 rwkw mark with their stock rev limits but if some extra revs are required it is a cheap fix for all. My only agenda is to give honest information to someone about to spend a significant amount of money, what's yours Sydneykid.

[Cubes]

Who cares.

RB's sound better, 4 pots sound crappy.

[Elithrar]

According to:

Wheels, Nov. 2002; (as per 'Dreamworld'), the Aust. delivered (S15) 200sx has 265Nm, and MOTOR, June 2002, also quotes the same figure (265Nm). Obviously, these numbers would have been given to them by Nissan Australia, but I do remember an article in MOTOR saying how the torque in the S15 was increased a little over the S14. I'll endeavour to find the issue for arguments sake; I believe it is the one with the 200sx vs WRX vx TypeR.

Also, I am merely just reporting these figures, and not siding with either omg or Sydneykid. But, I do think that omg was a little quick to judge Sydneykid; after all, no matter how hard you try, you cannot truly judge a person's character via a forum on the internet. Sydneykid has proven time and time again that he knows what he is on about.

Finally (insert sound of deep breathing here), why is it that RB20's are shoehorned into S13's? My guess is that the engine is more powerful when modified (mod for mod)?