The Clutch Thread - FEEDBACK PLEASE

[Skyrine-Dave]

I had a nissan Patrol clutch in my car and it held 300hp easily and had great bite.. and cheap

[WLD747]

will these cluthes fit a r33?

I had a nissan Patrol clutch in my car and it held 300hp easily and had great bite.. and cheap

[davidl]

Yes i have put one is a RB25det they use the same clutch.

[Emre]

I have tried a custom 5 puck, Nismo Spec II twin, and HKS Pro triple.

In a GTR, forget the single plates if you are thinking of any modifications at all.

Nismo Spec II is good for upto 600hp at the engine, has a sprung centre and doesn't rattle. It's very bitey and will take a little getting used to.

HKS Pro triple is rated upto 1000hp and has a solid centre. When you engage the clutch it rattles which can be anoying for some. Drivability is very similar to the Nismo but it can shudder at times at take off.

[CR34TION]

I have tried a custom 5 puck, Nismo Spec II twin, and HKS Pro triple.

In a GTR, forget the single plates if you are thinking of any modifications at all.

Nismo Spec II is good for upto 600hp at the engine, has a sprung centre and doesn't rattle. It's very bitey and will take a little getting used to.

HKS Pro triple is rated upto 1000hp and has a solid centre. When you engage the clutch it rattles which can be anoying for some. Drivability is very similar to the Nismo but it can shudder at times at take off.

A single plate heavy duty can handle up to 300kw on a GTR.

[Emre]

Yeah... sure.

For how long...?

[CR34TION]

ask "FERNI" and Ben from Racepace.

[Emre]

Why...?

Don't you know...?

[tribex]

I have the Nissan patrol Heavy Duty Clutch in my car, and it is awesome. Feels great, not to heavy and doesn't slip at all. Cost me $170 which is cost price.

will these fit in an r33 gtr??? at that price why not try a few , lol.....

[rev210]

With street driven clutches I think one of the biggest mistakes is in over doing the pressure plate.

My last GTST I opted for a sprung center 9 puck ceramic/metal clutch disc and a factory 'used' pressure plate. The factory pressure plate exerts enough force on the clutch disc so that it will bite and not let go. The ceramic has excellent high temp operation and grab but, like all clutch discs it is very important to bed it in properly. Not doing this will take some chunks out of it. Keeping the clutch down to the single disc has the added bonus of keeping the weight down. Also the 9 puck has a greater clamping area over 3 or 4 puck units and therefore requires less force from the pressure plate to do it's job.

If you need a heavier clamping pressure plate then see if you can get hold of a centerforce style unit. As they rev they increase the clamping pressure, bite like a pitbull if you rev and dump them.

[Emre]

rev210,

I think you've got it the other way around mate, less surface area will have more clamping force for a given pressure plate rating. That's why the most agressive single plates go with 3 pucks only. They will be fairly unforgiving and will take a little getting used to.

Stiffness of your clutch pedal directly relates to the rating of your pressure plate, assuming pivot points hasn't been altered with. If you upgrade your pressure plate you will have a stiffer clutch pedal. For a single plate to hold on to some decent power in a GTR, you need a hell of a lot of pressure for it not to slip.

GTRs, if driven hard are savage on clutches. If you drive around in normal fashion, sure, a single plate will have no troubles holding on to 300kw at the engine. If you like to take advantage of the 4WD and dump your clutch frequently, it will absoulately cop a hammering. I still have my factory flywheel in the garage that was mated to my ceramic 5 puck a couple of years ago, it is absoulately rooted.

[ferni]

I have an excedy heavy duty single plate - it holds on fine with normal drive, i does slip sometimes if i dump it hard, but i've been told this is probaly because its on its way out...

Not sure what Ben from race pace says about clutchs.. he just did my tune etc...

[rev210]

Emre,

The 3 and 4 puck units are designed to be 'on' or 'off', the surface area they have to 'grip' the flywheel after they engage is smaller, it doesn't need to be large because they are not intended to slip at all reducing the heat load. However they do require a much larger pressure over the relatively smaller area to remain 'stuck' to the flywheel vs a fiction plate with more 'puck's' once actually engaged.

The factory cast flywheels cast iron contact surface is not as hard as the ceramic material used, especially if it was machined before the clutch was fitted (the outer skin on the casting is the strongest part). I try to use chrome molly flywheels with ceramic's for that reason. The chewed up parts on the flywheel are not due to clutch dumps by the way, thats where you have been riding the clutch in traffic and traffic lights more likely.

Interestingly the best way to keep your clutch alive is to 'drop it', this avoids the massive friction involved in 'riding the clutch'. I think when people get their learners permits they seem to have 'riding the clutch' as a built in coping mechanisim for hill starts when with a tiny bit more skill they could avoid a future of owning performance vehilces that need a new clutch every year thanks to that very bad habit. It is something that even the factory GTR handbook/pamphlet on 'How to drive your GTR' (co-written by richards ,skaife and gibson motorsport team) allude to. They suggest '..stepping off the clutch and to avoid riding the clutch but, rather use the tractable nature of the engine to get you quickly away '. Their advice works very well they just left the bit out about rev limiters.

[2rismo]

Sydneykid, red210 etc.... What are your thoughts on the OS twin with anti rattle that Sydneykid has suggested bearing in mind that I don't care if it rattles as long as it lasts and puts up with the hiding I give it.

i.e. is the anti-rattle function ONLY to avoid the rattling sound or does it have a higher purpose?

Adrian

[rev210]

2rismo,

You know that I was running much more nitrous than you (about 170hp shot) and yet I drove around with a factory rated pressure plate and a very well made 9 puck clutch (Ross from Autoclutch in perth makes them). This combo continues to last for the cars new owner dispite it being about 3 years old now. The great thing about it is it feels as close to the factory clutch as you can get. Make sure you do the ogura flywheel too.

Oh, I almost forgot... GTRken put me onto Ross and he has used the same setup (with a slightly heavier pressure plate) on pretty much all his GTR's including the one's he and others have raced seriously. A couple of 300rwkw GTR's as well.

[CR34TION]

Why...?

Don't you know...?

i don't, cos i just got mine. they have had it for a long period of time.

[Emre]

rev210,

I agree with all of what you've said, except the following :

The puck style clutches have about half the surface area of a full surface disc so the pressure is distributed over a smaller area for a given pressure plate rating. This will have more clamping power for the same pressure.

Pressure = Force / Surface area

Ceramic is used as the friction material bacause of its very high co-efficient of friction, also because of this they are not intended to be slipped at all as this will wear out the flywheel and the pressure plate at an alarming rate. To eliminate slip totally, pressure plate rating is increased.

My factory flywheel is rooted bacause it copped a fair few launches and started slipping, more it slips, more damage is being done. I should've used a even higher rated pressure plate.

You are totally correct in how to treat these clutches in everyday driving. You gotta literally do mini 2500 clutch drops at every take off, which can look quite ridicolous from outside.

Regarding the 300kw GTRs racing : Was it circuit racing or drag racing...?

Jim Berry from Race Clutches in Queensland is also very reputable in the business.

[400HP]

Nismo Spec II is good for upto 600hp at the engine, has a sprung centre and doesn't rattle. It's very bitey and will take a little getting used to.

I've got a Nismo Twin Spec 1 on my car and I couldn't be happier with the choice. Compared to twin plate OS giken I found it easier to drive (it has a sprung centre) but I think either are fine just a matter of getting used to them. I don't believe that any single will be sufficient for a GTR which has over 200kw @ wheels... I had spoken to numerous members on this forum and friends as well as workshops on this matter and also on the GTROC forums and many people have gone through the exercise of gettnig a "heavy duty" single for their GTR only having to have it replaced 6 months down the track.

After a few months the clutch loosens up as well and its not so on/off but as I said once used to it its fine. Good for street and I know a couple of 1/2 miles isn't giong to destroy it either. The clutch is noisy and rattles a fair bit but who cares.... its a GTR... its loud anyway. Another benefit of getting one of these kits is that you usually get a lightened flywheel with it.

[CR34TION]

a stock gtr puts out approx 160kw - 170kw at the wheels.

my mates' gtrs has approx 230kw at the wheels, with the standard clutch still working fine and i have been told by many workshop a single plate will do fine.... well i hope they are right cos i don't wanna have made the wrong choice:(

[400HP]

a stock gtr puts out approx 160kw - 170kw at the wheels.

I guess it all depends on which dyno as well. Mine made 150kw @ all 4 on a dyno dynamics and this was just with an exhaust so I'd actually guess that it should make less than that stock.

my mates' gtrs has approx 230kw at the wheels, with the standard clutch still working fine and i have been told by many workshop a single plate will do fine.... well i hope they are right cos i don't wanna have made the wrong choice

Look as I said it all depends on the driving style but there are LOTS of people who have gone through this exercise. Yes of course for a while the standard clutch will work fine for a while but if you do end up modifying anymore, or do a few launches or whatever I bet you that you'll be doing a clutch replacement a lot sooner than if you got a twin plate.

Also if you're nito doing 1/4 miles or wahtever I would take a twin over a single as most twins engage much faster and as I previously mentioned the other benefit is the lightened flywheel.