Martial Arts

[R-SPEC]

Why do people have trouble mixing weight training with MA? used to do 3 days of each (monday weights/ tuesday kickboxing and so on)

Or is it a size issue? Some say you lose speed in your movements as you gain size but unless you're training to be a full on body builder/olympia style I dont see the issue...

also for those doing heavy bag work at home etc is there a routine/program that you go by or you just go ape shit on it?

[GTR_JOEY]

there is alot of cardio in MMA and I'm tryin to bulk up..

That and i like to get 5 gym sessions in a week

[-FIGJAM-]

i have read that lifting weights doesnt slow you down. But it can have other effects.

generally serious martial artist lift for different purposes. For example MMA fighters do alot of power training and explosive movements.

Also they do more full body workouts rather then focusing on say chest on day 1

[R-SPEC]

Can understand that if you're a dedicated martial artist competing or dedicated to body building/bulking but otherwise I don't see the big deal. If anything it's only adding extra power behind your punches/kicks and general strength.

Each to their own though

[GTR_JOEY]

If u wanna be good at either one it would be very time Consuming to do both....

Still need time for cars and woman... In that order lol

[Birds]

I can see the disadvantages for speed...more muscle = more mass = less speed in strikes despite more power. It's the other difference between heavyweight and featherweight fighters. If I was training with martial arts the priority, I would be doing more explosive movements with exercises that focus on increasing core strength, flexibility / range of motion and speed without adding too much bulk. A lifter's program is not ideal for this sort of thing, though there is no reason why you can't get good at both things - you'll just have some limits that someone completely dedicated to it won't.

[GTR_JOEY]

I mean good as in damn good, not as in a bit better then most people

I wanna be so far in front it's not debatable, not just a "bit" better... Just to clarify what I mean

[R-SPEC]

lol well since i'm not competing in either i'd rather have more of a balance and be reasonably good at 2 things than extremely good at 1

[shinyurikai]

Flexibility equals speed muscle mass equals power you can have both as long as you train both..!!! If you don’t stretch after a weight training session like a lot of people don’t do you will lose that flexibility. Anyone can slap someone and say their fast but the damage is only skin deep to make an impact you also need weight behind it... Mass times speed equals force.

Martial artist train to direct that power enhancing it by using the ground and then focusing it to a certain point this is why I love martial arts so much. I don’t understand the reason why people cheat them self’s by taking RODS. The people that start taking them are the same people that I see at the gym sitting around then lifting weights then sit for another 20 minutes or so doing nothing asking them self why isn’t this working...IF YOU GONNA DO THAT WHATS THE POINT OF TRAINING!!! When you rest for more than 10 minutes you muscles have already started to recover. 30 sec is the maximum you should rest In order to build muscle tearing muscle fibre in order to build new stronger muscle fibre. It’s the same thing with your bones when it breaks or becomes damage more calcium is pump into the area to make it dense and more durable.

I really don’t see why people don’t get it....

[Zorro]

Being a human fork lift is not an advantage in martial arts!

Flexability and speed are unrelated, but both equally useful. Strength can be useful, but not nessesary, too much is a hinderance (imo). It of course is highly subjective. Really you should think of it as, you pick the ideal body for your entire life, focus on that and work within its limitations and exploit its advantages. What seems ideal for one person maybe completely different for someone else, taking in all the influencing aspects of their life. So no, there is nothing wrong with bulking up muscle, with reference to martial arts, just be aware of the trade off. Power to weight is far more important than gross force, especially with us being car enthusiasts should know this very well! Also if you consider sport martial arts, most are fought in comparitive weight classes, so no real advantage physically. As for combative arts.....well thats a complex area and a story for another day!

A few things I think are useful to a martial artist are, fast twitch muscle fibres, yoga, pilates, gymnastics, meditation, physics, anatomy and of course going to training! haha almost forgot, time lots and lots of time!

also for shitngigz i noticed the emoticons next to me portray kendo very well... lol

Edited October 12, 2011 by Zorro

[shinyurikai]

I used to thing that to but I was wrong flexibility is Essential to become faster if you've ever done traditional taekwondo learned from FOB Korean Master then you would say the same thing. The best way to explain it is, think of your body as a massive network of rubber bands. Now think about the motion of your kicks think about what your muscles are doing at that point your muscles expand out and then contract. An example of this is hmm.. lets say you go for a round house kick you twist your shoulder back from your shoulder to your foot think of all those muscles as a rubber bands. Your abs, chest muscles, thy muscles then to get that power and that speed you need to contract those muscle as quickly as you can that’s were fast twitching muscle fibres into play. This is why body builders are slow the only exercising they do is contraction not expansion. Cars are not humans there not organic yes power to weight apply but that’s it nothing else. If you’ve ever seen bruce lee training this is the training I’m talking about denser heavier muscle fibres not fat chunking shit you see on most people on Roids.

[Majestic]

adding muscle mass will increase power but it will also work against you.. if a person is carrying too much muscle mass for their skeletal frame - the result is that the person will tire much faster (body has to work harder to pump oxygen to the working muscles) than a person who has the perfect balance of muscle mass for their frame (example of perfedct balance is George St Pierre). This is why fighters fight at a specific body weight - some guys are 'natural' middle weights, some guys frames are naturally a bit bigger - light heavyweight. Sure a middleweight can pack on muscle mass and weigh in at heavyweight - but this bulked up guy (natural middleweight) would be at a serious disadvantage against a natural heavy weight (has the skeletal frame of a heavyweight). Bottom line - if a persons goal is to fight - fight at your natural fighting weight. I've had 85 fights at middleweight for 81 wins 4 losses. The reason why I was so successful was I always fought at my natural skelatal fighting weight - I never got tired! had the perfect balance of strength, endurance, speed and power.. If i went up in weight - the perfect balance would be lost - strength would increase, so would power, my speed could even stay the same (lateral movement would slow down) but my endurance would decline - that's the last thing you want in a fight against a guy who is naturally bigger than you.

[shinyurikai]

Theres a few champions that have over come that and one of them is a boxer called manny pacquiao.

[-FIGJAM-]

Pac is on HGH, hardly call him a champion

but yea, you can be bigger then your body type and still win. But I agree with some of the points Majestic made, best physical shape for martial arts has to cater to your body type.

[Majestic]

yes he came up in weight - it's a natural process over time as a man pyhsically matures. Pacman didn't just say "i'm going to bulk up and fight heavier" - it's more that he would've found it difficult to continue making weight at those lighter divisions. Another point with those lighter boxing division - there isn't a big jump in actually weight between divsions - pacman now fights at welterweight - it's still only 147lb (67kg) and it's taken him 10 years to get to that weight! and he's still at his natural fighting weight. Bulk him up to light heavyweight and you will see the point I was tyring to make.

Theres a few champions that have over come that and one of them is a boxer called manny pacquiao.

[shinyurikai]

Pac is on HGH, hardly call him a champion

but yea, you can be bigger then your body type and still win. But I agree with some of the points Majestic made, best physical shape for martial arts has to cater to your body type.

he has

wbc flyweight title

ibf and ring magazine super bantamweight title

wbc & ring magazine super featherweight title

wbc lightweight title

ibo & ring magazine junior welterweight title

wbo welterweight title

That's still pretty amazing coming from having nothing right??

[GTR-N1]

I used to do Kung Fu (White Dragon Style)

No belts - being Chinese in form.

Went through those power trips to be like Bruce and Chuck

But my 2nd greatest lesson was from the greatest Aust boxer in Johnny Famechon. He was a master at making people miss. This allowed time to counterpunch/kick/sweep.

Greatest lesson was to learn how to talk my way out of a fight.

[Majestic]

yes the sweet science - speed, accuracy, timing, slip/weave and the ability to always be in a position to counter.

I like your quote about learn how to talk your way out of a fight. I too have never been in a street fight, sure I have had the opportunity to use my skills in street situations, but I could always avoid the actual fight by just using basic reverse dog pyschology (usually with just eye contact - sometimes not saying a word). Ultimately in a street situation, a person looking for a fight doesn't want to be in a fight against someone who will give them the fight of their life back. If a person project fear, fear causes hesitation, hesitation will cause ones worst nightmares to come true. If a person projects strength and confidence (guys that actually know how to fight do this naturally without trying - they have that natural predator look in their eyes, that confident walk and body language), animal instincts naturally tells a person looking for a fight "i better not fark with this dude" and ultimately will look for an easier victim that will project fear. Then there's always the cowards that will only start a fight when 15 of their cocained up mates are ready to jump in if they get in trouble

I used to do Kung Fu (White Dragon Style)

No belts - being Chinese in form.

Went through those power trips to be like Bruce and Chuck

But my 2nd greatest lesson was from the greatest Aust boxer in Johnny Famechon. He was a master at making people miss. This allowed time to counterpunch/kick/sweep.

Greatest lesson was to learn how to talk my way out of a fight.

[Touge Kyousou]

Kickboxing and thai boxing here. On and off for a long time and just recently gotten back into it and am loving it!

I've never been in a street fight myself, or even been in a situation where i thought i might need it (i'm quite boring and don't club/pub etc).

I started doing it in highschool and for awhile it was all macho and YEAH I'MA SMASH YOU but as i've grown up, it's now just a hobby, fitness thing, release, pushing myself and connecting my mind and body better etc. Even though i'm doing a hard style, i still get inner peace and happiness from it and it calms me a lot which is handy.

I also used to be a gym junkie and agree it can seem hard to mix the two and also think that too big/bulky slows you down but i also believe there's a good balance - you need to have some strength and "padding" when doing hard style martial arts.

To the above OP, there are a lot of people that know how to fight but don't project a predator/don't f with me image as well. It's just not worth it really is it? Flight over fight, see another day. Douches carrying knives and guns, douches with backup mates around the corner, knobs that don't know when to stop and seriously hospitalise/kill people. Accidents like knocking someone out and they hit the pavement wrong and die. I have for a long time carried less respect for people who practice martial arts and intend on using it in a fight. I guess i follow the whole respect/compassion thing being half chinese. Not saying i can fight either (some of you guys in this thread would whoop my arse!), but i try to be quite transparent when in public and not get any bad attention and don't really walk with confidence. Maybe it's a personality thing? I used to be quite shy as a kid and was the only child and being asian parents was quite sheltered.

Edit - at some point in my life, i want to really get into a soft martial art. Has anyone here done one? A famous example would be tai chi i gues.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Touge Kyousou

[MaTBoY]

To answer the question in the very first post, I think the reason no one really discusses this is almost always as soon as you mention something along these lines someone standing around always has a 'cousin' or a 'friend' who's trained for 1 or 2 years longer than what ever number you've trained for. Or even better, someone has trained in some other art that will kick your art's arse. Having said that, I've read the thread it's all constructive

I've done both kickboxing and Boxing for the last 10 - 12 years. I started doing a bit of kick, then moved on to boxing to help bring my hand work up for an advantage (I'm a Short mofo) and ended up loving boxing and finding it far more satisfying. I had one fight, dislocated my shoulder bad but still managed to win. (rotator cuff = fuxored) After the injury healed up I continued to train but with a little less intensity. The shoulder holds up ok until a certain point. I ended up getting my accreditation as a trainer and assisted a more senior/experienced coach for a while.

I've done a bit of MMA down at EFG in Penrith (Tama/James) but would really like to find a place that does Krav marga. I've got a couple of books/manuals and it looks awesome!