Formula One 2012

[hrd-hr30]

It seems that Grosjean is having a week off for being noobish and not understanding if he was clear of LH but if the same move was made by an established F1 driver like Schuey, would they have applied the same penalty? They may have decided to clamp down on the next major incident and Grosjean was the first in line.

Grosjean has had several fist lap incidents this year which I'm sure is a factor in their decision as well. And if you actually have that little spatial awareness to know Lewis was there but think he's not alongside you when he has benn for several seconds, then you probably shouldn't be in F1. Here's Kobayashi's spatial awareness for comparison!

http://imgur.com/a/ETPea

[89CAL]

I think that photoset makes Kobayashi look a bit better then he actually was. He was lucky to get out of that without damaging the car to bad. I don't think it would have been possible for anyone to react and avoid terminal damage quick enough. Yes he did the good by seeing it coming, but I dont think that its down to him being more skillful then anyone else

[Roy]

Grosjean has had several fist lap incidents this year which I'm sure is a factor in their decision as well. And if you actually have that little spatial awareness to know Lewis was there but think he's not alongside you when he has benn for several seconds, then you probably shouldn't be in F1. Here's Kobayashi's spatial awareness for comparison!

http://imgur.com/a/ETPea

Come on...you always judge driving in a vacuum. At the same track last year Hamo moved over on Kobayashi and caused a nasty accident at Les Combes. Button moved over on Hamilton and put him into the wall. When its all going on and you are moving past a car and judging whether you have cleared them many have made mistakes in their careers. Others have done and do it. Agree about spatial awareness but Hamo got a poor start and Romain was clearing him and made an error with Hamo still hanging around on the inside.

You have to look at things on merit and you cant say Romain is to blame for the 7 incidents he has had early this year! Australia was a hatchet job by Maldanado. The Schuey clash was a light touch in the wet and a racing incident (More experience may have avoided it) . The start at Monaco was just the meat in the grinder between Massa and Schuey. Romain has had a 2nd, two 3rds, a 4th and two 6ths...he has had one poor incident at Spa. He was probably on for a solid second at Valencia as well.

I like and rate the guy but we have seen this sort of thing time and time again. People forget the changes KERS and DRS have made to race starts. Pre the devices people used to commonly push for gaps that may close up knowing that the first lap was where the race was made. These days everyone is more patient knowing there will be opportunities due to tyre deg, KERS and DRS....so no saying it was not a mistake but I dont get the penalty and all the blood in the water. Either way it will be a good test for him to come back and see how he drives. I still really hope he and Kimi each bag a win before the end of the year.

Just found this to jog peoples memories when they start going about his "overly aggressive starts"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x90zXuS1xKc

I reckon this article has it about right

http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/spa-stewards-standards-and-safety/

[wolverine]

Grosjean has had several fist lap incidents this year which I'm sure is a factor in their decision as well. And if you actually have that little spatial awareness to know Lewis was there but think he's not alongside you when he has benn for several seconds, then you probably shouldn't be in F1. Here's Kobayashi's spatial awareness for comparison!

http://imgur.com/a/ETPea

Yep all a factor for sure.

[Roy]

It seems Webber had a different final gear as well so he was even slower than Vettel. Nothing is payingg off for Webz...hope he gets a fair crack next race otherwise he will lose touch with vettel/Alonso for the WDC

[hrd-hr30]

of course he was lucky to get out of it without car damage. The point was about his spatial awarness and his reactions to it what's happening in split seconds, not to mention the composure to get immediately back on the wheel as soon as they've cleared his car, in contrast to a bloke who'd have you believe he didn't realise the car he was passing was even there...

[89CAL]

Its a bit hard to judge them having never driven a F1 car, or even sat in one....

Im not defending the penalty, just saying. I'm sure driving a F1 car isnt as easy as it looks on TV

[Tai1or Made]

It seems Webber had a different final gear as well so he was even slower than Vettel. Nothing is payingg off for Webz...hope he gets a fair crack next race otherwise he will lose touch with vettel/Alonso for the WDC

Hate to jump on the "Redbull hates Webber" but the guy seems to be worse off then Biebtool.

[iamhe77]

Hate to jump on the "Redbull hates Webber" but the guy seems to be worse off then Biebtool.

Also seems to lack the aggression to make a pass and "get on with it".

example, the passes that Tool made in the chicane leading to the start/finish. Can't see a reason why Webz couldn't have made those same moves...

[No Crust Racing]

Can't see a reason why Webz couldn't have made those same moves...

I can, Skill.

And that's coming from a fairly one-eyed Webber supporter. I think he needs more things to go his way to really get a top result than other drivers who in my mind are better steerer's/more aggressive at the right times who can make more happen from less.

Maybe I'm being overly critical - make no mistake, it's clearly hard work to go fast in an F1 car, I think we've all seen Hammo try it on Top Gear. Maybe I'm just sour that he's not romping away from everyone with win after win, but I just wish he was more consistent and would step up more often.

Edited September 4, 2012 by ActionDan

[Tai1or Made]

but I just wish he was more consistent and would step up more often.

+1

[wolverine]

Also seems to lack the aggression to make a pass and "get on with it".

example, the passes that Tool made in the chicane leading to the start/finish. Can't see a reason why Webz couldn't have made those same moves...

A lack of terminal speed due to a shorter gear 7th gear might have left him a few metres behind the car in front at the braking zone.

[Roy]

I can, Skill.

And that's coming from a fairly one-eyed Webber supporter. I think he needs more things to go his way to really get a top result than other drivers who in my mind are better steerer's/more aggressive at the right times who can make more happen from less.

Maybe I'm being overly critical - make no mistake, it's clearly hard work to go fast in an F1 car, I think we've all seen Hammo try it on Top Gear. Maybe I'm just sour that he's not romping away from everyone with win after win, but I just wish he was more consistent and would step up more often.

Also seems to lack the aggression to make a pass and "get on with it".

example, the passes that Tool made in the chicane leading to the start/finish. Can't see a reason why Webz couldn't have made those same moves...

From what I understand Webber was 8km/h down on Vettel through the traps. So Webber was 20km's down on the likes of Hulk whilst Vettel was 12km/h down. May be part of the reason why Webber was just that a fraction further back where he couldn't muscle his way through cleaner.

Webber has had been on pretty aggressive strategies the past two races to try and get positions on the track with pace and passing. Vettel has gone the longer strategies where it was about consistency and cars pitting more than him. It seems either Webber cant get the same life out of tyres or when they are splitting strategies Webber prefers the more aggressive strategies. Based on the past two results I think he needs to consider seriously his ability to pull of China/Valencia results consistently enough to bag points towards the WDC

[No Crust Racing]

That's another thing I've noticed about his driving too, his seems to burn up the rubber quicker than Vettel and indeed other drivers also. Whether that's actually him and "he" is burning up the tyres through his style (maybe body weight also? though he has been looking pretty gaunt recently) or whether it's inherent in the cars setup remains to be seen.

The fact remains though, that the current car/driver combo seems less friendly to tyres than others in the field.

And agreed that in this particular race his final gear setup was not ideal, but my comments about his progress are more of an overview and spans 2011 as well, when in my opinion he really should have come away with a WDC. Take all that with a grain of salt though, I don't pour over the stats to back up my claims like some of the guys in here, and I'm glad you guys do because it brings clarity to rubbish claims sometimes, my comments are purely about "the vibe" of it. As a viewer, watching him race, those are the impressions I get.

Edited September 4, 2012 by ActionDan

[hrd-hr30]

Hate to jump on the "Redbull hates Webber" but the guy seems to be worse off then Biebtool.

the driver and his engineer choose their setups. So if Webber chose a shorter top gear or a bit more downforce or whatever it was (could have been that Vettel just got a better tow the time he set that higher trap speed?), it's not RBR screwing him over.

[tweety bird]

Formula 1's frontrunning teams could face a dramatic increase in entry fees for next year's championship if plans being considered by the FIA come off.

Taking last year's constructors' championship standings, the entry fees in Euro under that new plan would be:

Red Bull (650 points) 5.050 million

McLaren (497 points) 3.979 million

Ferrari (375 points) 3.125 million

Mercedes (165 points) 1.655 million

Lotus (73 points) 1.011 million

Force India (69 points) 0.983 million

Sauber (44 points) 0.808 million

Toro Rosso (41 points) 0.787 million

Williams (5 points) 0.535 million

Caterham (0 points) 0.500 million

HRT (0 points) 0.500 million

Marussia (0 points) 0.500 million

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102225

Lotus has confirmed that its reserve driver Jerome d'Ambrosio will take Romain Grosjean's seat for this weekend's Italian Grand Prix.

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102235

i can't wait for that^.

[Roy]

That's another thing I've noticed about his driving too, his seems to burn up the rubber quicker than Vettel and indeed other drivers also. Whether that's actually him and "he" is burning up the tyres through his style (maybe body weight also? though he has been looking pretty gaunt recently) or whether it's inherent in the cars setup remains to be seen.

The fact remains though, that the current car/driver combo seems less friendly to tyres than others in the field.

And agreed that in this particular race his final gear setup was not ideal, but my comments about his progress are more of an overview and spans 2011 as well, when in my opinion he really should have come away with a WDC. Take all that with a grain of salt though, I don't pour over the stats to back up my claims like some of the guys in here, and I'm glad you guys do because it brings clarity to rubbish claims sometimes, my comments are purely about "the vibe" of it. As a viewer, watching him race, those are the impressions I get.

I think its lessabout tyre wear and more about track position and the undercut. Hence the pitting early and more often

[No Crust Racing]

I dunno Bris, in my head there's been a few times when they've pitted because his lap times were dropping off, not because they were trying to be overly tactical, but again, I'm just an armchair commentator.

Some hefty entry fees there just for the privilege of being involved...

[ctjet]

jerome d'ambrosio... the lotus reserve driver... was at better odds to win the italian gp than massa... the full time driver from the championship leading team... and very few people seem to want to confirm his exit from the scuderia

just sayin

[dori34]

anyone going to Singapore for the race?