Formula One 2012

[ctjet]

there is a precedent and therefore there must be consitency, sucks to have to do this sort of thing outside the racetrack but if you let one thing go where does it end ?

it starts end ends with common sense and decency

this post from another forum saves me typing out wht i was thinking

Oh the irony. You could not make this stuff up. My best guess is alonso hit his head and suffered amnesia...

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/63581

Fernando Alonso believes it would be bad for Formula One if Lewis Hamilton was handed the world championship title via post-race disqualifications.

Speaking after news of the investigation into the BMWs and Williams broke, Alonso said Formula One's reputation would be damaged if Raikkonen lost the title because Hamilton was retrospectively promoted to fourth.

"It would be a joke, and we've had too many already," he told Spanish radio station Cadena Ser. "If something like that happened, it would end up burying the sport."

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/63956

Formula One will be badly damaged if 'grubby' legal manoeuvring leads to Kimi Raikkonen losing his title to McLaren's Lewis Hamilton in a courtroom, Ferrari's lawyer said on Thursday.

"It would be a serious injustice to Mr Raikkonen were the championship to be taken away from him," Nigel Tozzi told a hearing of the governing FIA's independent International Court of Appeal.

"It would be highly damaging for the sport if the title were to be won this way with the fans probably feeling it was more about grubby manoeuvring by the lawyers than by skill behind the wheel," said Tozzi.

"As McLaren have always said, the championship should be decided on the racetrack and not in the courtroom."

Tozzi said comments by McLaren bosses that they were not appealing in order to win the title through the back door but for clarification of the rules should either be taken at face value or be seen as the words of "shameless hypocrites devoid of any integrity".

Edited November 29, 2012 by ctjet

[dezz]

Yes he would.

and realistically, rules are there for a reason.

It's even more damning because nothing was done about on the race weekend.

there is a precedent and therefore there must be consitency, sucks to have to do this sort of thing outside the racetrack but if you let one thing go where does it end ?

Spot on

You're all dreaming if you think McLaren/RBR/any other team would let a championship go without a fight if they believed the rival team won because they weren't penalized for breaking the rules. This isn't a game of backyard cricket.

[tweety bird]

this is what the bbc has to say about the matter.

Ferrari want to establish whether there is enough evidence to lodge a protest that, if successful, could overturn the result of the Formula 1 world championship.

They are "evaluating footage" that appears to show Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel making an illegal overtaking move in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.

Spain's Fernando Alonso lost the title by three points to his German rival.

But Vettel could lose four points if he is deemed to have broken the rules.

Formula 1's governing body, the FIA, has so far refused to confirm that it is investigating the incident.

There is no word either from Vettel's Red Bull team, who could not be contacted for a comment.

Video footage from Vettel's on-board camera appears to show him passing Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne in a yellow 'caution' zone on lap four of Sunday's race.

If that is the case and if any protest is made and upheld, it could result in a retrospective 20-second penalty for the German.

That would drop the 25-year-old from sixth to eighth, costing him valuable points and a third successive world title.

Alonso, who finished the race at Interlagos in second place behind Jenson Button, would then top the standings by a single point.

The 31-year-old Alonso, who was world champion in 2005 and 2006, is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.

However, the governing body does not need Ferrari to act to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.

Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."

That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another.

Drivers must proceed with caution and overtaking is strictly forbidden in a yellow zone - indicated by yellow flags and flashing trackside yellow lights.

If a driver is caught overtaking in a yellow-flag zone, the punishment is either to drive through the pits at restricted speed if the race is still under way, or 20 seconds added to a driver's race time if the incident takes place close to the end of the race or is investigated after the race.

The footage in question was not shown on the main global 'world feed' during the race as it was showing repeats of the start at the time.

However, it has since been posted on the video-sharing site YouTube.

The video is now available to watch on the BBC Sport website and is embedded at the top of this article.

The footage shows Vettel passing two flashing yellow lights then overtaking Vergne down the straight, completing the move before reaching a flashing green light, indicating the end of the yellow zone.

Rules dictate that the 'yellow' zone ends only when the driver passes the first 'green' indicator.

Drivers are alerted to caution zones by an indicator on their car's dashboard display.

The yellow flag indicator in Vettel's cockpit is on the whole time.

If there is any discrepancy between what is displayed on a driver's dashboard and what is being displayed on the track, then the trackside flags and lights take precedence.

It is possible that Vettel thought he was free to overtake Vergne because he saw a marshal waving a green flag at the exit of the pit lane. In other words, before he made his manoeuvre.

A green flag is waved by a marshal at that post as Vettel passes the Marussia of Charles Pic on lap three, but it is not clear whether it was still being waved on lap four.

Some videos have appeared on the internet that seem to show an official waving a green flag but it is not clear on official television footage.

The likelihood of any protest being lodged or of any action being taken depends on whether Ferrari or the FIA can establish whether there was a green flag waving at that marshals' post at that time.

If there was, the case will be closed and no further action will be taken. If there was not a green flag, it is highly likely that the case will go before the FIA Court of Appeal.

Under a strict interpretation of the rules, the Court of Appeal would seem to have little option in that scenario to impose a penalty.

But it may well feel it has to evaluate how much of an effect on the result of the race a drive-through penalty for Vettel at the time would have had.

BBC Sport asked the FIA:

- If the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix had investigated the incident in question during the race.

- If there was a green flag waved on lap four at the marshals' post on the inside of the track after the exit of Turn Three.

- If the FIA was now investigating the incident.

The FIA declined to comment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

sky sports video and breakdown of the drama.

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/video/12870/8282348

[djr81]

Spot on

You're all dreaming if you think McLaren/RBR/any other team would let a championship go without a fight if they believed the rival team won because they weren't penalized for breaking the rules. This isn't a game of backyard cricket.

Well a better question is how did Vettel not get penalised after destroying Sennas car and his race?

[sh@un]

why not say something during/just after the race?

why wait 4 days?

so pursuant to their own governing articles, the FIA is now obliged to act

[dezz]

Well a better question is how did Vettel not get penalised after destroying Sennas car and his race?

I don't think anyone can believe that his car drove away from that incident in the first place. If it was Maldonado or Grosjean that cut across someones nose like Vettel did, you can bet your house that half of the people in here smoking his pole would've gone on and on about how bad it was...

why not say something during/just after the race?

why wait 4 days?

so pursuant to their own governing articles, the FIA is now obliged to act

Dare say Ferrari were pre occupied with trying to win the title on the track, just like everyone is saying they should have done....I'm so over all this spirit of the sport bullshit that gets thrown around in here though...McLaren get done cheating...It's all a conspiracy. RBR front wings constantly under scrutiny...must just be jealousy

These teams are investing HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS into their sport, with one goal in mind, to win. If an opposing team beats you, and you suspect they did it outside of the rules, you'd be an absolute moron to not do everything in your power to make it right.

The rule is black and white, no passing under yellow flags. Every driver and spectator knows it. Whether it costs him 0 points or the world championship, he should've been penalized for it (if it's proven he did pass under yellows). You can't say, well he did break the rules, but he'll lose to much if we penalize him. He either broke the rules and is penalized, or he didn't and he's not. Pretty simple really

[iamhe77]

if he were to have 20 sec added to his race classification, would Nando be ahead on amended points?

Yes.

[sav man]

The passing under yellow is the most basic rule in motorsport. I've seen people DQ post race at local meets for passing under yellow. Vettal may be a multiple champion, but he still doesn't have his head screwed on, he yells abuse at his engineer when everything isn't going his way, and he thinks he's above the most basic motorsport rule in the world.

If it was McLaren protesting you would all be doing cartwheels, and saying what a great idea it was.

[ctjet]

The passing under yellow is the most basic rule in motorsport. I've seen people DQ post race at local meets for passing under yellow. Vettal may be a multiple champion, but he still doesn't have his head screwed on, he yells abuse at his engineer when everything isn't going his way, and he thinks he's above the most basic motorsport rule in the world.

I have never heard him abuse his engineer. Only demand information

It clearly gets works for them

If it was McLaren protesting you would all be doing cartwheels, and saying what a great idea it was.

no actually, i wouldnt

but thanks for trying to speak for the rest of us

[Owgasm]

That video explaining it was really good.

Koba moved practically moved aside. Thinking it was green and vettel was going to pass. Did he allow the pass to happen? Break/slowdown.

Next thing, over the crest. Yellow.

The next comment made about forfeiting the position is true as well. How would vettel do that when koba went into pits? Maybe koba went right to let him pass, so then he could go into pits without causing an accident.

I think it is how it is now.

[ctjet]

sky sports video and breakdown of the drama.

http://www1.skysport...o/12870/8282348

i am totally in love with that little strumpet

[iamhe77]

I think you are missing that Ferrari are looking at a different situation. Lap 4, passing Vergne under a yellow.

Nothing to do with Sauber/Kamui

[tweety bird]

twice the ammo?

[sh@un]

The rule is black and white, no passing under yellow flags. Every driver and spectator knows it. Whether it costs him 0 points or the world championship, he should've been penalized for it (if it's proven he did pass under yellows). You can't say, well he did break the rules, but he'll lose to much if we penalize him. He either broke the rules and is penalized, or he didn't and he's not. Pretty simple really

I agree. 110%. I wanted to see the issue dealt with by the stewards on the day, and a drive through issued during the race if he was guilty.

The commentary team referred to the incident a number of times, and Martin even wondered why there had been no notice of a pending investigation (during or post race)

Yet, over half a week later, all of a sudden it's an issue?

Why?

Personally I reckon him losing a title for ignoring rules even someone with an L2S license just knows may teach him not to carry on like an arrogant, entitled, little cock-end on a race track...

[dezz]

The funny/ironic/moronic thing will be, if Alonso is awarded the championship because of a post race penalty, that every RBR/anti ferrari muppet in the world will be piping up about how Alonso doesn't deserve the title etc etc

He lost by 3 points, in a car that was arguably 3rd/4th best on the grid for most of the year, and was taken out into turn 1 on 2 seperate occasions.

Pretty undeserving winner

[dezz]

I agree. 110%. I wanted to see the issue dealt with by the stewards on the day, and a drive through issued during the race if he was guilty.

The commentary team referred to the incident a number of times, and Martin even wondered why there had been no notice of a pending investigation (during or post race)

Yet, over half a week later, all of a sudden it's an issue?

Why?

Personally I reckon him losing a title for ignoring rules even someone with an L2S license just knows may teach him not to carry on like an arrogant, entitled, little cock-end on a race track...

I have no idea why it's only coming up now and neither does anyone else on here....In the post race interview with Pat Fry, Fry said that there wouldn't be a protest as they (Ferrari) believed it was a red/yellow striped flag for slippery track conditions. Now more evidence is showing that it was a yellow zone as well, and maybe on more than one occasion, so of course they're going to raise it if they believe there's a case...They'd be stupid not to

It shouldn't be about punishing him for being a cock sucker (and we all know how much I dislike the little twat), it should (and will be if it happens) be because he broke one of if not the most basic rule in racing. The punishment for that isn't losing the championship, it's a 20 second time penalty. Whether or not that 20 second time penalty costs him the championship shouldn't be a deciding factor at all

[Owgasm]

I think you are missing that Ferrari are looking at a different situation. Lap 4, passing Vergne under a yellow.

Nothing to do with Sauber/Kamui

Oh.. well wtf are they on about then.

[sh@un]

Pretty undeserving winner

I could live with that. He did have to haul around a car that was by all accounts a fairly shabby thing in the beginning of the season, and getting mugged in the aftermath of the first-lap nutcase's destructo-derby at Spa didn't help either

The punishment for that isn't losing the championship, it's a 20 second time penalty. Whether or not that 20 second time penalty costs him the championship shouldn't be a deciding factor at all

again, 110%

[ctjet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0

+ the first two comments

[tweety bird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0

+ the first two comments

the fia have taken it down, it's as if they don't want us to see it...