Ever Fought A Speeding Fine In Victoria? Here's My Day In Court:

[R31Nismoid]

I've had Police lie in court as well mate, on more than one occasion - It's nothing new and the GOR Police officers are well known for it.

I've actually been to Geelong Courts before, and won my case against the old duck from Lorne Police station who was lying, breaking protocol and his "star witness" didn't show in 2 occasions.

It's just how the system is unfortunately. Police are sworn to uphold the law, yet push comes to shove they are forced to be totally dishonest by prosecutors and similar as part of their job. It's a broken system that will never change. When you see the attitude the top brass display, you can understand why pretty easily.

Next time just get a lawyer, never have to stress then. (I've found court rooms to be largely a joke, no pressure, i just sit back and try not to laugh at the absurdity that is the Officer statements lies).

[Iron Mike]

I'm no lawyer but I did study law for a while and remember a case I looked at where a man was fined for speeding on his motorbike in exactly the same fashion - an officer trailing behind and using their speedo as a means for measuring the biker's speed. To cut a long story short, the case ended up in court where the magistrate dismissed the fine on the grounds that using a car's speedo as a device to ACCURTELY measure speed was impermissible - regardless of whether or not a certificate of calibration had been obtained. Had you brought this case up in court as precedent I'm confident the outcome of your case would have been different. The judiciary here in Australia is very big on this idea of 'precedent', which is basically where a judge makes a ruling in a similar/almost identical case which can be used as a reference for rulings in later cases.

[enka]

oh wow, nice one mate,

and i thought our cops are different, they're the same big fat liars

[R31Nismoid]

I'm no lawyer but I did study law for a while and remember a case I looked at where a man was fined for speeding on his motorbike in exactly the same fashion - an officer trailing behind and using their speedo as a means for measuring the biker's speed. To cut a long story short, the case ended up in court where the magistrate dismissed the fine on the grounds that using a car's speedo as a device to ACCURTELY measure speed was impermissible - regardless of whether or not a certificate of calibration had been obtained. Had you brought this case up in court as precedent I'm confident the outcome of your case would have been different. The judiciary here in Australia is very big on this idea of 'precedent', which is basically where a judge makes a ruling in a similar/almost identical case which can be used as a reference for rulings in later cases.

Police are recognised estimators of speed. So all they need is the distance

There would've been more to that case anyway by the sound of it.

Speedo can be a supplementary item so it's not really grounds to fight based on that as you simply go on time/distance which is quite easy to work out. I've had that tried on me before as well (but failed due to distance not being enough, where they were in relation to myself etc etc).

[Little]

I appreciate all the extra info and experiences.

Birds has possibly hit the nail on the head; with the local gov't simply taking the money instead of the state. But here's another angle my lawyer (Scott from speed fine consults) suggested.

The word 'precedent' came up as Mike stated.

If this magistrate had dismissed the charge outright he would have set a precedent for anybody else here in Victoria. and word gets around about this kind of stuff; I believe we're pushing 300 views on this story alone.

There is also the fact that i directly attacked the police's evidence and therefore their integrity. They're all mates in that court room and they're in there all the time with each other. I'm sure he didn't appreciate the whacks i was taking at "his" frizzy haired prosecution.

And then; at the end of the day he didn't believe me. He said that the prosecutors evidence stands; that i had wasted his time and that i'd taken 2 coppers off the street.

Just before me There had been about 3 other cases of young driver idiots were talking a load of garbage and they hadn't read the police report or made a defense. They hadn't cleaned up for court; they were irritating; piss poor; saying all the wrong things; then irrelevant things and they took ages. There was one bloke that wanted to be let off because a 60 sign noway near where he was caught had a bush in front of it.

And he went to town on these people. He absolutely destroyed them. He Charged them court costs and gave them convictions for their permenant records.

So I'm standing there being crucified; he's said i've wasted his time and he's about to destroy me too.... Except then he didn't.

Why? No court costs; no conviction; the donation was less than the fine.

Scott said; if he really truly thought I had wasted his time i would have copped all that.... but he didn't... This means that in some way the bloke

actually DID believe me but has let me go in such a way that it doesn't 'set a precedent'

"Going against the general grain of Victoria" is what he said.

Nismoid - interesting you've been there too... so the great ocean road cops have a reputation do they?

additionally with the speedo thing; they're meant to have a balinger module sat on top of the dash; these guys have just used the holden digital one in their cluster!

Final thing: argh... they were both saying that there were no more than ten meters from the front bike to the last... there were four of us. How f**king suicidal would you have to be to be within two and a half meters of each other going (allegedly) 75!!!!????

[topher_]

I'd say it's a loss, even though you didn't get any points, you still had to pay a fine and spent a day in court not working.

It's absolute B.S that they can get away with lying under oath! TBH i have no respect at all for the police, they are all crooked sons of bitches who basically f**ked my life up at a young age to save their own jobs. Dogs of the highest order

[adis]

Its a win.

Youve gained valuable experience that day.

Got a smaller fine with no points and learned alot on how the legal system works.

Well done and great read

[xALmoN]

So dash cams and voice recording for every police encounter from here on henceforth?

[Iron Mike]

But here's another angle my lawyer (Scott from speed fine consults) suggested.

The word 'precedent' came up as Mike stated.

If this magistrate had dismissed the charge outright he would have set a precedent for anybody else here in Victoria. and word gets around about this kind of stuff; I believe we're pushing 300 views on this story alone.

You're right word does get around but how many people out there seek legal advice before contesting such fines and are aware of how to use our legal system to their advantage? Aside from being aware of the fact that precedent does exist and can be used, it would only be a matter or proving the irrefutable similarities between the two cases to be able to use the precedent.

Police are recognised estimators of speed. So all they need is the distance

I don't know quite what you mean by this. Estimation of speed is a very subjective measure and I don't think it would stand up in court in conjunction with a regular speedo reading, let alone as evidence on its own. All the variables that are used to define speed/velocity can hugely differ between individuals.

[R31Nismoid]

It means exactly what i said - they are recognised as being estimators of speed, and this is recognised by the courts.

rate x time = distance

There is no "differing" on the above at all, you can work out pretty quickly/easily with excellent accuracy.

[gtsttrk]

It means exactly what i said - they are recognised as being estimators of speed, and this is recognised by the courts.

rate x time = distance

There is no "differing" on the above at all, you can work out pretty quickly/easily with excellent accuracy.

This. It's one of the reasona why undercovers, HP etc tail cars for a distance of time before pulling them over. Plus, anyone with a basic understanding of maths can work it out. It's more accurate than what a lot of people assume.

Edited November 26, 2012 by gtsttrk

[Odium]

Yep, and the further back they are, the more accurate the reading is going to be. (Also increases the chance that you'll keep speeding.... Most people would back off if a late model commodore starts booting it to catch up to them)

[topher_]

So dash cams and voice recording for every police encounter from here on henceforth?

Don't know if this is true or not, but i was told you had to tell a cop if you're recording them.

[Birds]

Think you have to tell anyone you're recording them if you're planning on using it as evidence. Thus telemarketers tell you the convo is being recorded and if you say you don't want it to be recorded they have to stop the call.

[CrispyFries]

Think you have to tell anyone you're recording them if you're planning on using it as evidence. Thus telemarketers tell you the convo is being recorded and if you say you don't want it to be recorded they have to stop the call.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/293509-recording-police-conversations/

[mickey]

Should have got a lawyer

[xALmoN]

so we dont have to mention anything about recording.

well this is more to back myself up when i'm accused of speeding when i wasn't or accused of going faster than i actually was.

since dad will pay for it. lol.

[Iron Mike]

It means exactly what i said - they are recognised as being estimators of speed, and this is recognised by the courts.

rate x time = distance

There is no "differing" on the above at all, you can work out pretty quickly/easily with excellent accuracy.

I would love to see a legal excerpt substantiating this. The only case in which an officer's estimation could potentially be used as evidence would be one where excessive speed was clearly evident, aferall, who can honestly look at a moving car and say "yes, this car should be going 100 kmh but it is in fact going 105kmh and therefore the driver must be fined"?

[R31Nismoid]

It wouldn't be used in such a trivial situation as 5km/h over.

I can tell you now they are, I've been to court over it.

[gtsttrk]

Yeah I got done in the same way as well, partially due to my own ignorance of the speed limit on Bulleen road (no excuse).

Was tailed for probably 300-400m before being pulled over. Plus, on the infringement notice doesn't it say Alleged/approximate speed?

Though the alleged would be there in case of a court case I presume. Assumption of innocence FTW.