Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7027730
Share on other sites

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

This used to be the case but as part of the various Free Trade Agreements made under Howard (and pursued by Labor), these rules had to go. Forcing Government employees to purchase local is considered protectionism which is BAAAAAAAD apparently. Of course, we didn't, nay couldn't, force this upon our fellow FTA friends cause we don't have the bargaining power, but we'll happily let our industry die due to it. The US still have these rules in place as well as many other rules excluding Australian products from being imported as well as subsidies for their local industries, however this is apparently "Free Trade".

As for money for the car industry, it's a necessary evil. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people employed in the car industry chain. And on top of that we pay very little compared to pretty much every other country which manufacturers cars.

The next 6 months will be interesting. Abbott decried the money going to Ford and Holden as wasteful. Has he painted himself into a corner or will he simply bullshit his way out of it and hand them cash anyway?

Oh, and the point made earlier regarding Toyota, Ford, Holden and Toyota share many components made locally. Those component manufacturers can only continue manufacturing as long as the volume is high enough. Take Holden out of the picture and many of those companies won't be able to survive based on Toyota volumes alone so they go to the wall meaning Toyota can no longer source parts locally leaving them high and dry.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7027826
Share on other sites

Yes, we'll adding insult to injury 10mins ago, there's a Police Peugeot on the M4

Number plate CHRSCO

Diamond Creek police have a brand new black marked Chrysler 300c SRT as a chase vehicle.

Edited by Cowboy1600
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7027916
Share on other sites

I'm no economist but only trying to join some dots, am I...

Q Why are ex-gov't vehicles these days consisting of Renaults, Peugeots, Hyundais as well as Fords, Camrys & Holdens?

Q If Renaults, Peugeots and Hyundais somehow get damaged, don't their replacement parts come from France and Korea?

Q Doesn't Australia have a parts industry for our Fords, Camrys and Holdens (not including Cruze-Daewoo)?

Q If Australian CommCars are Aussie made vehicles, then why can't other state gov't and local gov't vehicles be Aussie made too?

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Prisons

* Health workers

* Hospitals

* Pathology

* RTA/RMS

* Buses (now there's a new market)

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

* Councils

* Police

* Judiciary

* Dept of Secondary and Primary Education

* Universities

etc etc etc

Q Am I on the right page here?

Maybe Australia needs to start making more smaller and economical vehicles on-par or better than the overseas manufacturers. I think Holden make the Cruze locally - but I guess there is a stigma that its roots are Korean.

I'm sure most reason why these government agencies choose international is because they can offer cars that do not depreciate fast (via the leasing company) and are good on fuel.

On a side note - If Holden/Toyota sold an economical turbo charged 1.6L to 2L RWD cars with handling to match and the size of a Corolla - it can easily capture the interests of motoring enthusiasts around the world.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7028910
Share on other sites

As far as Toyota goes the Australian cent is almost equal to the yen now (ie AUD$ is very expensive) so if Holden were to stop producing and component makers in Australia increased their prices there would be a lot of pressure on Toyota to just import all cars from Japan etc. On the other side of the coin the high dollar means Australia could import engines for cheaper - VL for the 21st century sounds like heaven to me :D

As far as producing a 1.6L-2.0L turbo car goes I think that is a pretty crowded niche with a limited market - admittedly RWD would make it unique but it would probably end up costing more than an AWD car from Europe or Japan and much more than an FT86. I think Holden have a good niche with the Commodore, being able to sell it overseas and using it as a base for other GM RWD cars. If only they could get an electric/hybrid etc powered one developed and get rego/tax subsidies for owners in Australia (as Japanese EVs/hybrids get in Japan) then it would be great - but I guess that probably doesn't fit in with GMs global plan - Volt etc).

Edited by *LOACH*
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7029133
Share on other sites

On a side note - If Holden/Toyota sold an economical turbo charged 1.6L to 2L RWD cars with handling to match and the size of a Corolla - it can easily capture the interests of motoring enthusiasts around the world.

2L turbo rear wheel drive. I don't know why Hyundai isn't pushing this here.

hyundai-genesis-coupe-3-big.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7029374
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

if 100yen to the dollar, aus dollar is good return since the yen is really high. Its not 1 yen to the dollar, its 100yen to the dollar.

If there is only one buyer for goods and lots of goods, then the power lies with the buyer, not the seller, which means that if toyota was alone it could command whatever price it wanted, with only a few players, ref they only assemble here, they don't manufacture anyway, they still command the price they want anyway.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7051744
Share on other sites

if 100yen to the dollar, aus dollar is good return since the yen is really high. Its not 1 yen to the dollar, its 100yen to the dollar.

If there is only one buyer for goods and lots of goods, then the power lies with the buyer, not the seller, which means that if toyota was alone it could command whatever price it wanted, with only a few players, ref they only assemble here, they don't manufacture anyway, they still command the price they want anyway.

Is this post directed at me? If so you will note that in my post I said that "the Australian cent is almost equal to the yen now". Note Australian CENT not dollar.

In addition I don't understand your supply and demand point. Do you mean Toyota as buyer, if it were to be the only manufacturer in Australia, would be able to dictate prices to parts manufacturers? Or do you mean Toyota as seller, if it were to be the only manufacturer in Australia, would be able to price cars however they wanted? I don't think either of these points are valid.

Edited by *LOACH*
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7052446
Share on other sites

Shut Holden and use the money for one out of a million and one better things than bailing it out. What is to say that giving them the cash is going to sustain the company on the long run (10-15yrs)? Nothing. And what happens when they go broke again? Aussie cars are simly not as popular and as sought after as before. Jap and german are dominating and its not hard to see why. You get a lot of car for less money. Holden keep making rubbish everyday cars and their "performace" range is full of single cam terrible motors and vehicles. If they want to stay in business they should raise the cash, not tax payers, most of whom dont drive holdens and never will. Use the money for something else.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7057210
Share on other sites

Q Extrapolating, why can't all vehicles be Aussie made when the purchasing officers of the following departments do their sums?

* Trains (another new market)

* RailCorp

I'll chime in with the only topic listed i know anything about...

even if an existing international company like Siemens brought production of national trains to Aus, it'd be way too expensive an exercise for a country with different rail networks (system voltages, comms, track width, sizes) that dont buy enough trains on a regular basis. I'm sure siemens already has technicians based out here who assemble and probably repair the trains. I think thats about as good as its going to get.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/428433-holden/page/2/#findComment-7065204
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Latest Posts

    • Had a go at the stuck crush tube this afternoon. Tried things like grips and a chain wrench first but wouldn't just twist straight off. So got to work with a drill. Started small and kept a depth stop on to make sure I didn't drill into the bolt. Made a line of drill holes all the way up and enlarged them. Then a combination of chisel and Dremel to split it all the way up. Levered the split to get oil in there and eventually it gave a bit while levering. Worked it back and forth with loads more oil till it was spinning freely, then with grips I could work it downwards and off. And no significant damage to the bolt (not by me anyway - just the 27 years of rust)
    • Well, I'm tired. I'm tired because about 4PM yesterday, before today's appointment someone immediately bought my bumper. They couldn't get it any other day as they're on the way back to NSW. So I had to do that big GTR conversion I had been planning. Unfortunately, the information on SAU about what you need and how this is done is incomplete. So what should be a simple bolt on affair, yeah, it's not. Did you know if you use all GTR items the bonnet won't close? This little manuever sent me into about 1am the night before trying to dodge a way to get it closed. I will have to revisit this in the next few days  - or maybe not, I may let a body shop figure it out. It all needs to come up and my motivation to pull the bumper off is low. It also seems to hit things in the bay where the GTT bonnet didn't. Yes I used 100% new OEM GTR items. Today, I had the joy of driving to the dyno looking like this: Given I had roughed in the fuel and given sensible but pretty conservative timing, I didn't really bet on having the car drive out any real difference than when it drove in. Sadly due to a miscommunication and laptop fun and games (and almost bricking the dongle, prayers and firmware updates indeed), I ended up using HP Tuner credits to licence the car that was already licenced. So in the end my laptop was used. It turns out my butt dyno is still well calibrated after all this time. The 325kw was on 74% Ethanol, the 313kw line was on 98. The other line is the 'before' line which was 281kw. While the numbers are pretty low, they're pretty in line with what you'd expect. Even if US dynos bump the whole result up about 50KW, gaining 10-15% is similar gains.  The curve of the cam is pretty much spot on with what was discussed as well. All this said, it still feels bad to not see the number you secretly want to see. Even if the car drove great beforehand, and I knew pretty confidently the car would drive out much the same way it drove in due to the nature of a wellish dialled in LS1 not gaining much if anything at all from being tuned from where it was. As expected, the car isn't particularly sensitive to running it at anywhere between 12.0 and 13.0 - And the initial timing at 20deg and 12.0 made 308KW. So 3 degrees of timing, and leaning it out to 12.7 for 5kw, anything above stopped giving any benefit until E85 (which has an additional 2 deg as before). Car itself behaved entirely fine. I found out that 100C = 1.15V! IAT at about 7pm was 19C. I might mess with the bonnet mounting.. but given the REO NEEDS TO BE CHOPPED TO FIT A GTR BAR this is possibly something I may leave gathering (more) dust until it returns to paint jail.
    • It sounds farrrrrrr too cold at your place Duncan... Here I was thinking our 10 degrees overnight is getting cold...
    • oh yeah, reminded this morning....bin lids frozen shut too
    • In my case not, because of total reno. But yeah.
×
×
  • Create New...