Long Term Forced Bora Plan

[PranK]

A quick background on my Bora;

I bought it a few years ago because I needed a cheap daily and I wanted something a little different. I was able to pick up the mack daddy V6 4Motion sport (yes, Sport!) and it is a really surprising little car. I love my Bora! I drive two hundred kay's per week to and from work and take my daughters to school pre-school most mornings. The value of the car has dropped off so badly that it is now simply not worth selling. I have spent a bit doing things like brakes, bilsteins and other bits n pieces to make it a better daily, but nothing serious.

Until now (except not now, in the future.)

I have to be up front, I don't know much about turbos or induction. I know the basics but thats about it, hence why I'm asking questions.

The Bora is 150kw in its stock form and my car now has over 220k's (believe it or not, it feels so tight still, not a single thing feels aged.)

I am thinking about either a turbo kit or (ready ... wait for it ... ) a supercharger kit.

Leaning towards a blown VR6 because, frankly, I've never had a blown car. But, the blower option seems to be much more expensive. Money is not in abundance in my household.

A 6 psi supercharger kit is super expensive at around $5k because a new ecu (or flash) is needed.

A turbo kit is much cheaper at around $1800 delivered (check this eBay one) and would probably give me a bit more power without needing to touch my ecu.

The thing is, I'm wondering if I could modify my manifold and use a s2 R33 Gtst turbo (ceramic) and maybe even an R33 side mount cooler? If I dont need to touch my ecu and considering how tight my funds are (seriously tight) is that a possibility?

Maybe I'm missing something though? What do we need to do with the oil lines?

Considering I have some seriously nice B8 Bilsteins in the car and all new front bushes, I want to give it some more poke so I can hit some track days again and still drive 30k's each way to work.

Ending my rant here.... Drank almost a full bottle of red writing this.

[KiwiRS4T]

I doubt you can turbo it without reprogramming or replacing the ECU.

Is there not a VW forum that can tell you the best way to get more power from your V6?

Here ya go:

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/9587529/motor-trend-garage/what-can-i-do-with-a-2000-vw-passat-v6/index.html

[PranK]

I doubt you can turbo it without reprogramming or replacing the ECU.

Is there not a VW forum that can tell you the best way to get more power from your V6?

The majority of the folk in the US just turbo them, but there is many more options available in the states.

[Dale FZ1]

If there are concerns about funds before embarking on forced induction, then it can't end well especially without changes to fuelling and ignition. There are going to be changes necessary regardless of how extra air is forced down its throat.

An old ceramic turbo? Forget it. Turbine failures on RB25 setups simply from bumping up the boost and running them harder are well documented.

I've had a run in two cars running centrifugal superchargers and came away impressed with the linear delivery in each. Torque did not seem to fall away, due to rising boost curve. The downside seemed to be cost/time/effort involved in mounting the supercharger and getting an effective belt wrap to prevent slippage as rpm and drive requirements rise.

Possibly a different perspective, but I'd spend some of the $5k on suitable brake pads, rubber, and adjustable suspension links to give the thing max traction once aligned correctly. The rest stays in the bank for entries, fuel and incidentals. It would rail around corners and you'd be capitalising on the strengths of the platform without placing ridiculous stresses on a well used engine.

[Plattsy]

or......................

do it.

i turbocharged a 330000km engine. using a ceramic turbo from a gtr. quadrupled the power on ethanol.

do it. do it do it do it.

but do it properly. bigger injectors and fuel pump, ethanol, and a reflash.

[PranK]

If there are concerns about funds before embarking on forced induction, then it can't end well especially without changes to fuelling and ignition. There are going to be changes necessary regardless of how extra air is forced down its throat.

An old ceramic turbo? Forget it. Turbine failures on RB25 setups simply from bumping up the boost and running them harder are well documented.

I've had a run in two cars running centrifugal superchargers and came away impressed with the linear delivery in each. Torque did not seem to fall away, due to rising boost curve. The downside seemed to be cost/time/effort involved in mounting the supercharger and getting an effective belt wrap to prevent slippage as rpm and drive requirements rise.

Possibly a different perspective, but I'd spend some of the $5k on suitable brake pads, rubber, and adjustable suspension links to give the thing max traction once aligned correctly. The rest stays in the bank for entries, fuel and incidentals. It would rail around corners and you'd be capitalising on the strengths of the platform without placing ridiculous stresses on a well used engine.

I hear what you are saying but I'm not looking for massive power. The car already gets along quite well, but it's definitely out of puff when getting over 5000 rpm. I'm not one for taking on projects half-arsed, so if I can't afford to do it properly, I wont do it at all.

Would injectors and ignition really be required if only looking for average gains?

The RB25 turbo comes to mind only because it is ceramic and if I'm only going to be running the equivalent of a standard Gtst boost it would handle it ok I'd assume?

I'm not disagreeing with you, as I said, I'm no expert in this area, just making sure I understand correctly.

Regarding brakes/suspension this has been the area of focus so far with slotted rotors and good pads, bilsteins, bushes refresh. Rear sway bar and links are next.

or......................

do it.

i turbocharged a 330000km engine. using a ceramic turbo from a gtr. quadrupled the power on ethanol.

do it. do it do it do it.

but do it properly. bigger injectors and fuel pump, ethanol, and a reflash.

Reflash is easy, 7 million different options for my car already and many 'stage 2' or 3 type flashes for turbos.

I'm not sure what is available in terms of injectors for my car, would be interesting to find out.

Thanks guys.

[Plattsy]

I hear what you are saying but I'm not looking for massive power. The car already gets along quite well, but it's definitely out of puff when getting over 5000 rpm. I'm not one for taking on projects half-arsed, so if I can't afford to do it properly, I wont do it at all.

Would injectors and ignition really be required if only looking for average gains?

The RB25 turbo comes to mind only because it is ceramic and if I'm only going to be running the equivalent of a standard Gtst boost it would handle it ok I'd assume?

I'm not disagreeing with you, as I said, I'm no expert in this area, just making sure I understand correctly.

Regarding brakes/suspension this has been the area of focus so far with slotted rotors and good pads, bilsteins, bushes refresh. Rear sway bar and links are next.

Reflash is easy, 7 million different options for my car already and many 'stage 2' or 3 type flashes for turbos.

I'm not sure what is available in terms of injectors for my car, would be interesting to find out.

Thanks guys.

being audi, im guessing here, but im gonna say ev6 top feed bosch injectors......

could be wrong.

[Plattsy]

i was right.

so in reality, depending on impedance and size, the r34 neo injectors at 370/380 what ever woudl be a very very cheap upgrade.

[Plattsy]

after a bit of reading it appears you have 220cc injectors.

i wouldnt be running these with any boost what so ever. easy upgrade to 370cc.

walbro 255 pump for 100 bucks also.

thats the easy part sorted now you need a fabricator.

[Blackkers]

That ebay kit you gave the link to has a manifold for a straight 6 engine but the bora has a V6?

That makes plumbing more difficult/expensive

[Leroy Peterson]

is there a reason you want to go turbo, or just because?

if money is tight, why not play around with N/A for a bit? unless looking for large gain you still need exhaust + tune/flash of some sort. might as well do drips and drabs?

[Plattsy]

That ebay kit you gave the link to has a manifold for a straight 6 engine but the bora has a V6?

That makes plumbing more difficult/expensive

im pretty sure thats just a stock picture.

modify one of the manifold to hold the turbo and the other to have a cross over pipe would work... in theory.

[Blackkers]

A friend of mine has a V6 bora and I did a few things like CV shafts and an oil change for him. with an aftermarket clutch it launched pretty hard I must admit. The 60 foot would be better than my 300rwkw R33

[PranK]

Its definitely surprising and totally unassuming.

Wow, so R34 Neo injectors would fit? Thats amazing, there'll be more Nissan parts than VW in there.

Why not play with N/A? Because besides flash and exhaust I'd need to go cams and manifold I'd expect. Then, if I wanted more I'd need to re-do the exhaust and manifold anyway.

I have been looking for a MK4 R32 exhaust as a cheap upgrade. They dont pop up often as only 400 of those cars made it to Australia.

[Plattsy]

thats an educated guess prank... with out knowing exact inpedance and size i cant be sure, but at first glance, they look to be 14mm...

[Dale FZ1]

~$2k AUD landed is pretty steep for that turbo kit, when you look it's not really a bolt on kit with just a selection of pipe bends that it states you will have to do some fabrication to make it all go together. The turbo and gate are both pretty average spec when you consider what else is available as Asian knock-offs and their prices.

When I mentioned fuel and ignition changes, I'm talking about reflashing the ECU as a tune to suit your particular setup, not one of those generic plug in interceptors or whatever seems to still be popular in the US or UK. Poor or inappropriate tuning will kill a VW as easily as a Nissan even on 6psi. If there is a flash tuner available then you'd probably go with that, otherwise look for a decent plug-in ECU. Maybe look at Link, and check whether Adaptronic can engineer something for a respectable price.

I like Plattsy's suggestion about injectors, quite a good budget conscious idea.

Suggest having a good look at Rotrex supercharger and mounting kit. Boost delivery on one of those won't provide the bigger mid range hit of a turbo but the overall delivery is friendly, and packaging easier when you factor in heat shielding etc for the turbo setup.