Illicit Drugs

[XGTRX]

Eh? What damage, besides anyone stupid enough to drive under the influence? Or are you implying if one 'does drugs' they're inherently stupid?

Self serving? Yeah, spoken by he who's hell-bent on ensuring somebody isn't allowed to do something that doesn't affect him. K.

Spoken by a true self serving stupid ignoramus.

The implications of all you idiots that drive an illegal industry that is responsible for most of the crime and human injustices in the world and the fact the directly or indirectly is responsible for petty crime of addicts like robbery, assault, and domestic violence is pathetic.

And the fact that you have no real concept of doing what's right for the community as whole because you are selfish fktards instead of trying to leave some sort of positive legacy to our kid so they don't get exposed to this shit buy scumback users that need to make a quick buck.

In my field I see this shit every day and what it does to society, family and kids, and for you to even imply that its somehow is acceptable just proves your delusional existence.

Crawl back under your rock and come out when you have some real concept of the reality of your responsibly to this world and our kids, and future generations instead of being a selfish spoilt shit.

Stop using and there won't be an industry now and in the future, end of story.

You have no clue mate, absolutely none.

[Trex]

Your defense is in the most extreme cases.

What about normal people with normal lives, who occasionally use drugs, whether that may be alcohol coffee pot cigarettes mdma what ever.

What about the children with adhd Parkinson's etc who take legal which is often a form of an illegal drug? If you have to ask about these cases you should not be speaking on this topic.

[gtr jet]

Who doesn't love a bit of adhd medication in their morning coffee!

[Birds]

How many times do I have to tell you people, don't mix a stimulant with a depressant!

[Anfanee]

There is a big difference between prescribed medication and just the random version of a street drug or even a legalized version.

Ever seen what Ritalin does to someone that doesn't have ADD/ADHD? It goes from a wonder drug to something that shouldn't be sold.

Also do any of you guys know a doctor that works in a hospital? They spend 90% of working time looking after drunk idiots that have hurt themselves or others rather than people that are actually sick. Our hospitals are already overloaded to the max. Drugs would only make the matter MUCH worse.

Not to mention the police have enough issues dealing with drunken violence/drunk people doing stupid shit. Let alone adding drugs into the mix.

And that's only the impact on emergency services. Let alone workplaces, families, etc.

But unfortunately this is the world we live in. It's always about mememe and people don't care about the impact on other people.

[Trozzle]

I should elaborate that I don't expect any proposed systems such as testing booths at festivals be paid by the taxpayer. Most of the organisations keen on drug testing (like Dancesafe) would do it voluntarily, landing minimal cost on the event organisers or taxpayers. I'd also happily donate to these organisations out of my own pocket, even though I will never utilise their services myself.

I also agree that health issues that arise as a result of drug use shouldn't fall on the public healthcare system. This includes alcohol and tobacco. If you wish to dabble, you accept responsibility. Obviously if you're a f**king moron and are in a life threatening situation, you'd get help - but you'd also be forced into rehab or counselling imo.

With the above in mind, I do admit I'm self-serving here. Obviously I'm not working towards YOUR interests (those against drug use), since you don't want to use drugs. That's cool, don't use drugs. Just stop working so hard against me using them, because my drug use has absolutely nothing to do with you. That's my main issue here - the number of people hell-bent on ensuring somebody else can't do something that doesn't directly affect them (yes I acknowledge it can, but any action another person undertakes can inadvertently affect strangers, somehow).

It's exactly like me as a male taking a hard stance against abortion - it has absolutely nothing to do with me. Abortion is concerning the woman's body and her choices; drug use concerns mine.

Telling people not to take drugs is the height of ignorance. Human nature says that ideal will not work. Knowing this, yet standing against something that will possibly save an idiot's life, is selfish and self-serving.

And finally, I wouldn't call your mother an idiot if she were hit by a bus while jaywalking, despite her being irresponsible and doing something against the law at the time.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Trozzle

[Trozzle]

How many times do I have to tell you people, don't mix a stimulant with a depressant!

BUT BRO SPEEDBALLS ARE THE SHIT. JUST ASK ELVIS. THAT DUDE KNEW HOW TO LIVE.

I've consumed more illicit substances that everyone in this thread who's against drugs combined. I've been told more complete bullshit by those "in the know" about what I'm doing than I could ever have imagined. We look to those with extensive education in these fields for factual information - thus far, I've read blatant lies put forth by qualified professionals. Blatant lies that are so simple to disprove you merely need wikipedia. This thread is no exception.

If I believed everything I've been told about the drugs I've consumed, I should be dead. Obviously I'm not, so perhaps I should be a complete vegetable after burning so many holes in my brain....nope, doesn't fit either. I'm in pretty damn good health actually. Somehow, my Saturday night didn't see me die, despite consuming such a deadly substance as MDMA.

[Anfanee]

An abortion can't get in a car and kill someone.

An abortion can't go to work and injure someone.

And to say you wouldn't expect the taxpayers to pay for it is a load of shit and you know it. That is EXACTLY what would happen.

[Trozzle]

An abortion can't get in a car and kill someone.

An abortion can't go to work and injure someone.

And to say you wouldn't expect the taxpayers to pay for it is a load of shit and you know it. That is EXACTLY what would happen.

The abortion isn't my point - it's me taking an opinion on what another person does with their body.

What a person does under the influence is their reckless stupidity and I don't condone it in the slightest. They should be belted senseless with the book, and then some. That same idiot would probably get in their car and do something stupid when sober.

And I absolutely do believe what I said regarding financial burden of these things. I have private healthcare as it is, and I still wouldn't expect that to cover my stupidity either.

I've already donated to these organisations in the past, because people are going to take drugs, and I'd like to do my bit to ensure they aren't duped into consuming something dangerous. Unlike some, I care for the livelihood of others, even if they're doing something like taking drugs. Stop placing human life below your moral standards, because you know abstinence is a complete joke of a 'solution' to anything like this. Human nature.

[Trozzle]

aka euphemistically as party drugs, recreational drugs etc

should be called Fark Up Your Brain drugs!

These are the most evil insidious things on earth that will infiltrate demotivate and destroy future generations in what has been a great country.

They've progressed from pot to lsd to heroin to speed to coke to ecs to ice to flakka...

All cause a spike in a variety of up to ten or eleven brain neurotransmitters aka endorphins and leave the user dead in the water. The nice spike can last hours or only a few minutes.

By chasing after the original hit - hit after hit -

a) families get screwed up

b) money goes to the drug lords and down the chain of command

c) chromosomes get affected in offspring

Do you know people who've just 'lost it' on drugs? Alcohol is not illicit but yeah, it's a sleeper...

f**k it.

Terry, please come back into this thread and provide supporting information on your claims, regarding LSD at the least. I'd like to know the specifics of how it negatively affects one's health - don't be shy with detail either, I've picked up quite a decent understanding of basic pharmacology over the past few years of reading and dabbling. I'm more than happy to do further reading to clarify anything you may put forward in case its a little advanced as well. I have a hunger for knowledge on this subject, to a point where I wish I could go back in time to when I was in college and get my past-self to study biology, chemistry, and pharmacy. Alas, I'm stuck in IT...which at least allows me to sit behind a computer, connected to the internet, which is a wealth of factual information when you put the time in to find it.

[Anfanee]

Stop placing human life below my moral standards? What i'm doing IS placing human life above my standards. Merely pointing out i don't think some dude wanting to have a better night is worth risking someone else life. Is it just that people don't care or?

To say that you don't think it should have an impact on taxpayers is bullshit. Sure it shouldn't. But it will and you know it. Just like at the moment a good chunk of my taxpayers money goes towards smokers, drinkers, people that decided to have children and COULDN'T afford it. Pro tip: if you can't afford it don't have 5 f**king kids.

The cornerstones to a society:

Healthcare and Education

How can we expect to advance as a society when more and more money is getting taken OUT of Healthcare and Education.

Hell we have an epically ageing populaiton. This is only going to get WORSE.

Stop placing human life because you want to have a slightly better saturday night. There are MUCH more important things Society needs to focus on.

[-FIGJAM-]

Stop placing human life below my moral standards? What i'm doing IS placing human life above my standards. Merely pointing out i don't think some dude wanting to have a better night is worth risking someone else life. Is it just that people don't care or?

To say that you don't think it should have an impact on taxpayers is bullshit. Sure it shouldn't. But it will and you know it. Just like at the moment a good chunk of my taxpayers money goes towards smokers, drinkers, people that decided to have children and COULDN'T afford it. Pro tip: if you can't afford it don't have 5 f**king kids.

The cornerstones to a society:

Healthcare and Education

How can we expect to advance as a society when more and more money is getting taken OUT of Healthcare and Education.

Hell we have an epically ageing populaiton. This is only going to get WORSE.

Stop placing human life because you want to have a slightly better saturday night. There are MUCH more important things Society needs to focus on.

this thread has brought the lulz. You should all listen to the podcast I just posted in the supplement section regarding steroids.

but on the bold and completely off topic people having kids who can't afford them are f**king up the tax system/social welfare, we know it shouldn't but it does. This goes for a lot of other social welfare payments.

also there are a lot of criminals out there who don't do drugs but are still criminals. Just saying

[Trozzle]

Stop placing human life below my moral standards? What i'm doing IS placing human life above my standards. Merely pointing out i don't think some dude wanting to have a better night is worth risking someone else life. Is it just that people don't care or?

To say that you don't think it should have an impact on taxpayers is bullshit. Sure it shouldn't. But it will and you know it. Just like at the moment a good chunk of my taxpayers money goes towards smokers, drinkers, people that decided to have children and COULDN'T afford it. Pro tip: if you can't afford it don't have 5 f**king kids.

The cornerstones to a society:

Healthcare and Education

How can we expect to advance as a society when more and more money is getting taken OUT of Healthcare and Education.

Hell we have an epically ageing populaiton. This is only going to get WORSE.

Stop placing human life because you want to have a slightly better saturday night. There are MUCH more important things Society needs to focus on.

A f**king huge chunk of your taxpayer money was pissed away on this issue, in a way that I am also strongly against. It's clear the hard line approach doesn't work and never will. It was proven with alcohol. So continuing to endorse this approach will continue to see OUR taxpayer dollar fruitlessly thrown at law enforcement and wasteful PR campaigns, which are not working. I mean we're paying law enforcement to stand against drugs whilst consuming them themselves.

You place human life so highly you're prepared to step into someone else's life to prevent them from doing something that could potentially harm another person, but only if they do something irresponsible whilst undertaking that activity....

Start campaigning against motor vehicles. They claim more lives than the specific drugs I support decriminalisation of. You'd also be campaigning against something you have experience with, something you do yourself. Unlike your campaign against other people using drugs. Something you don't have the same experience on. Something you don't do yourself.

this thread has brought the lulz. You should all listen to the podcast I just posted in the supplement section regarding steroids.

but on the bold and completely off topic people having kids who can't afford them are f**king up the tax system/social welfare, we know it shouldn't but it does. This goes for a lot of other social welfare payments.

also there are a lot of criminals out there who don't do drugs but are still criminals. Just saying

I'm more concerned about this than any junkie or dole bludger:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-03/federal-politicians-claim-almost-48-million-in-expenses/6999498

[Birds]

Troy - just a question out of left field (and this isn't a trick question to test you for dependency or addiction) - do you need drugs? As in, could you happily go without them if they were suddenly wiped from the face of the planet or would you be able to go on and find other ways to entertain the mind sans under the influence?

[Ben C34]

I would organise a rock eisteddfod. How the f**k is that meant to be spelt?

[Trozzle]

Troy - just a question out of left field (and this isn't a trick question to test you for dependency or addiction) - do you need drugs? As in, could you happily go without them if they were suddenly wiped from the face of the planet or would you be able to go on and find other ways to entertain the mind sans under the influence?

Certainly. I touch MDMA once every few months, which is the only time I go out. Otherwise my illicit drug consumption goes as far as weed, which is admittedly more frequent than one should. Otherwise I might take a psychedelic, most likely mushrooms, as infrequently as I take MDMA.

I'd be disappointed if they just vanished, as many would be with alcohol etc beyond addiction. It's merely one of many ways I enjoy life. I can go out sober, though the atmosphere isn't the same so it's not really in my interests, hence I just go out on the occasion I'd like to take MDMA and spend the night dancing.

Weed vanishing would land me with some more spare time of an evening/afternoon when I've got everything done and out of the way. Often I'll take this chance to have a smoke and zone out, simply to relax. It'd be disappointing if it vanished, but certainly wouldn't ruin my lifestyle.

[IcedTea]

Stop placing human life because you want to have a slightly better saturday night. There are MUCH more important things Society needs to focus on.

I think you're missing the point. The fact is that the substances Trozz has mentioned don't actually have adverse affects on society, it's the opposite.

If you're jaded enough to throw the substances being discussed in the same category as heroin, ice, meth, tobacco, alcohol etc. then you're choosing to be ignorant.

[Trozzle]

I think you're missing the point. The fact is that the substances Trozz has mentioned don't actually have adverse affects on society, it's the opposite.

If you're jaded enough to throw the substances being discussed in the same category as heroin, ice, meth, tobacco, alcohol etc. then you're choosing to be ignorant.

A lot of my issue. I too am somewhat "against" the actual hard-drugs. Potent opiates like heroin (and the shit it's cut/laced with like Fentanyl). Stimulants like methylamphetamine (and its horribly WORSE replacements like a-PVP [Flakka]). We all know tobacco's impact on health. Alcohol related deaths are around 13-15 per day in Australia, and before you pick me up on the use of "related" deaths, the incidence of acute alcohol poisoning deaths is somewhere around the 140 per year mark which is significantly above MDMA overdoses (somewhat doubt anyone has actually died of an OD this year in Aus). There have been multiple deaths from drugs that when the user obtained and ingested, they were under the (ignorant) belief it was MDMA. The drug at play was not MDMA, yet you're happy to group all drugs together anyway. The only reason things like PMA were synthesised in the first place is to skirt prohibition laws. If the laws werent as they are now, there'd have been no reason to synthesise PMA, and it would be almost certain that we wouldn't be having deaths in festivals as a result of PMA's existence.

But let's focus on the potential impact of these substances whilst users are under the influence...idiots will be idiots and do things they should very much NOT be doing whilst under the influence, however I sill believe the likelihood of this occurring is being blown way out of proportion. Weed, sure. It's already happening. Same with Meth. Not as frequent as alcohol, and I know that doesn't justify their legality just because something else worse is already legal; the opposite is also true, which is the argument I'm up against.

So long as we have masses of people against something they don't want to partake in any way, we'll continue to see more PMA, more Flakka, more 25I-NBOMe, more deaths.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Trozzle

[Trozzle]

The dude under the influence of alcohol is more likely to get irate and aggressive, starting an altercation with me, as thanks to MDMA I'm too busy trying to be everyone's mate, which annoys him.

So yeah maybe I could cause trouble when I'm rolling. Some people just don't want to harmonise.

[XGTRX]

Taxes, money blah blah blah. There are things much more important.

You have to go much deeper than this to get some concept of the real damage that is being done.

Trozzle, maybe if you weren't jacked for most of you existence you may have some insight to reality, but obviously you are have your head so far up your arse that your reality is your intestine's mucosal lining that is full of shit.

Trozzle, how do you cope with the fact that you are part of the problem, the fact that you are supporting crime locally and globally, the fact that you will be responsible for your kids, your nieces, nephews and friends kids being exposed to these drugs, the fact that every wife that gets bashed by clapped out user is because of you.

All you users are part of all the horrific injustices that you FORCE on society.

And you pack of cnts force me to deal with all the associated issues like drug crimes, violence in public places, domestic violence etc. so you ARE impacting me by your abnormal behavior.

And dont even compare cigarette smokers to you guys, i would much rather have 100 cigarette smokers in a dunny than 1 ice addict in a shopping centre.

I challenge any user to get off your shit for a day and go on a Friday and Saturday night and sit in an emergency department and watch, not so much the fktard users but the families, the kids, the staff. Listen to all the nimrodic screaming, then listen to the discussions of the family members, the emotions, the sadness, the confusion. Do it! Witness all of it in person. This is the evil crap you are fueling. You are to blame for every kid that uses for the first time.

Guaranteed it will be the biggest reality check in your lives.

The reality is that nothing good comes from using. Nothing!

The reality is that the drugs themselves have huge negative impacts on society both present and future.

The reality is they warp the mind that creates destruction in the world directly and indirectly.

The reality is;

and this is the clincher:

We are all here as custodians of this world and we should aim to leave it better than what we found it, and by you scumbags supporting an industry and lifestyle that creates so much negativity and destruction in this world today and for future generations to deal with is disgraceful.

But obviously you don't give a fk.