Spool Billet Oil Pump Gears, Delayed Oil Pressure

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Shuuuu,

So here goes, built motor, everything pretty much new, however re-used the OEM NEO oil pump, which similar to a GT-R N1 pump.
With the pump, modified it and installed a set of Spool Import Billet Oil Pump gears and installed the matching collar to suit from Spool as well.

It provides good oil pressure, cold start up about 4 bar on idle (according to my Haltech pressure sensor & the dash shows about the same too)
Oil pressure increase as RPM increases and appears the pressure relief valve works corectly too and plateaus about 8~9bar with higher RPM.
Once warm, I get about 1.8bar of oil pressure on idle with Penrite 10/tenths 15W50.

Car is running a JHH oil relocation block, -10AN lines to a GREX relocation block and into a 25 Row Setrab oil cooler with a Z422 Oil Filter (has anti-drain back)

Now the problem, it takes a good 15 seconds to build oil pressure when you 1st start the car when cold OR when it has been sitting for more than 10 minutes
I've changed the oil filter just to be safe, still same thing.

Lastly, this has only started to happen after the skid pan day... If I did crack the gears, the car would simply just stop building oil pressure but it's still making pressure.
So this has lead to think maybe the oil pump housing itself is damaged?

 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

The oil pump housing was taken apart and cleaned after these photos, just don't have a post image lol.

 

[GTSBoy]

Perhaps more likely that the external oil plumbing (in particular the anti-drainback valve) has suffered a failure and letting the oil out of the loop?  Perhaps your investigation path would be to pull that loop apart when it's cold and/or possibly drained back and see if it looks more empty than it should be.

[iruvyouskyrine]

Slightly off topic but maybe relevant. 

My RB30 does this also, on a cold start its substantially worse. engine ticks loudly for ~10-12 seconds until oil pressure builds and then goes nice a quiet. I don't have an oil pressure gauge in my car however. 

RB30E with 320,000km on it when i got it, now at 350,000km @ 380kw 
Completely standard untouched original nissan RB30E oil pump with shim in relief valve to bump up pressure.

Not running any form of oil cooling either.

[iruvyouskyrine]

Also when doing the front main seal about 2 years ago, crank thrust would be about 5+mm ? so i'm thinking the gears have taken a fair hammering.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

12 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

Perhaps more likely that the external oil plumbing (in particular the anti-drainback valve) has suffered a failure and letting the oil out of the loop?  Perhaps your investigation path would be to pull that loop apart when it's cold and/or possibly drained back and see if it looks more empty than it should be.

The anti drain back is part of the Z442 design, might start pulling off hoses as recommended and see if there are issues around that.

Worse case scenarios:

• sump pick up is cracked/broken and sucking in some air.. was a modified item by ASR
• Oil pump housing is cracked, I did re-use the OEM N1 oil pump housing and put in Spool billet gears
• Collar tolerence (if any) destroyed shit after heaps of limiter 

Well, it is end of year - a few days under the car to pull off the subframe, sump using an engine brace.

Sigh!

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

Just an update (for those wondering and for future people with the same issue or so).

Turns out the oil pump gears and housing were heavily scored and also the gears pitted from either cavitation OR foreign material being ingested.

Removing the sump showed no signs of metal or debris, pick up was clean and oil filter (although not taken apart) appeared clean inside as well. Was unable to pick up on any foreign debris which alludes me to thinking there was some form of tolerance using the billet gears in an old housing and/or some for of cavitation which destroyed the gears and then the housing.

A new N1 pump has been purchased and now waiting on Spool Imports to re-open and a new set of gears will go back on. Hopefully this will solve the issue(s).

And during this time, I decided to put a bigger turbo on too - old setup has been removed (manifold, gate, lines, screamer are sold - everything else still available)

[Griffin]

How's the crank end float?

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

34 minutes ago, Griffin said:

How's the crank end float?

As in between the gears and the crank collar? I measured nearly 0.3mm

[NEO25T]

Probably referring to the thrust bearing, is the crank sliding forward when clutch is pressed

[iruvyouskyrine]

23 hours ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

 

The back face of the gears looks like it has taken a hammering, i don't really know about this stuff but my gut says they shouldn't be that worn

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

1 hour ago, NEO25T said:

Probably referring to the thrust bearing, is the crank sliding forward when clutch is pressed

Ahh, no idea to be honest but with the 1000+ or so clutch dumps, limiter bashing could be a possibility?

 

[NEO25T]

Easy to check while its apart, if the crank is hungry it will try eat the new pump too and u dont want that

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

16 minutes ago, NEO25T said:

Easy to check while its apart, if the crank is hungry it will try eat the new pump too and u dont want that

swap for a F30 335i BMW and I'll throw in a tool chest too