Jump to content
SAU Community

High End Burble

SLIXK

By SLIXK,
in Four Door Family & Wagoneers

 Share

Recommended Posts

joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

Posted
Posted
On 11/28/2021 at 12:07 PM, SLIXK said:

Stock turbo with no boost solenoid and stock ecu 

If the car is overboosting it will hit an R&R corner of the map. The calibration engineers set up the map so that as you exceed the load expected by the stock turbo the engine will run noticeably rich and pull ignition timing. I believe there is also protection if you exceed the airflow the MAFs can read.

  • Confused 1
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958181
Share on other sites
SLIXK Collaborator

SLIXK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 10:37 AM, joshuaho96 said:

If the car is overboosting it will hit an R&R corner of the map. The calibration engineers set up the map so that as you exceed the load expected by the stock turbo the engine will run noticeably rich and pull ignition timing. I believe there is also protection if you exceed the airflow the MAFs can read.

How am I over boosting with just a 3 inch exhaust 

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958182
Share on other sites
GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 8:30 AM, SLIXK said:

How am I over boosting with just a 3 inch exhaust

Consider it to mean "more boost than the factory ECU tune is happy with". It is exactly as Joshua said. The high load high rpm corner of the factory maps are both grossly rich and very retarded. If your bigger exhaust is allowing a little more gas to flow, you will go deeper into that region and experience more of it.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958185
Share on other sites
joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

Posted
Posted
On 11/28/2021 at 2:00 PM, SLIXK said:

How am I over boosting with just a 3 inch exhaust 

If you have a Nistune you can read the TP load index, if you're hitting 88 that means you've reached the limits of the stock map. Maybe you have a very high RPM/load misfire that is going to get worse but it could also be that you need a slight remap.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958187
Share on other sites
SLIXK Collaborator

SLIXK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 11:52 AM, joshuaho96 said:

If you have a Nistune you can read the TP load index, if you're hitting 88 that means you've reached the limits of the stock map. Maybe you have a very high RPM/load misfire that is going to get worse but it could also be that you need a slight remap.

Can my stock auto ecu be remapped?

 

On 11/29/2021 at 11:43 AM, GTSBoy said:

Consider it to mean "more boost than the factory ECU tune is happy with". It is exactly as Joshua said. The high load high rpm corner of the factory maps are both grossly rich and very retarded. If your bigger exhaust is allowing a little more gas to flow, you will go deeper into that region and experience more of it.

So basically I need a tunable ecu ?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958188
Share on other sites
joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

Posted
Posted
On 11/28/2021 at 3:09 PM, SLIXK said:

Can my stock auto ecu be remapped?

 

So basically I need a tunable ecu ?

I forgot which section of the forum I'm in. If you have a WC34 S2 with a JECS ECU then it can be remapped with Nistune. Load index maxing out at 88 is an RB26 thing, not RB25.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958189
Share on other sites
SLIXK Collaborator

SLIXK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 12:14 PM, joshuaho96 said:

I forgot which section of the forum I'm in. If you have a WC34 S2 with a JECS ECU then it can be remapped with Nistune. Load index maxing out at 88 is an RB26 thing, not RB25.

If I go with nistune am I able to change my ecu to a link at a later stage or is the nistune a permanent mod?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958193
Share on other sites
joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

Posted
Posted
On 11/28/2021 at 4:07 PM, SLIXK said:

If I go with nistune am I able to change my ecu to a link at a later stage or is the nistune a permanent mod?

The Nistune is a daughterboard that attaches to the OEM board. The Nistune Type 4 WC34 JECS board uses your OEM Consult port to connect to a tuner's laptop rather than cutting a hole in the ECU case for a USB port. So it is a fully reversible mod, especially when it comes to changing your ECU out for a Link standalone. There is no point in bothering to revert your ECU back to factory condition once you get a Nistune installed though, if you want the factory ECU map you can just flash it at any time and it will work just like factory. The only difference is unlike the OEM ECU you can see even more live diagnostic data. You will lose some conformal coating on the OEM ECU board in order to get to the solder joints so don't drop water on your ECU for any reason after that unless you apply new coating.

Tuning Nistune requires a different approach to how you would tune something like a Link, both because you're dealing with what is effectively compiled code (how the ECU does the math) and because the ECU uses MAF primarily as the load scaler. Most people are unfamiliar with how MAFs work.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958200
Share on other sites
SLIXK Collaborator

SLIXK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 2:51 PM, joshuaho96 said:

The Nistune is a daughterboard that attaches to the OEM board. The Nistune Type 4 WC34 JECS board uses your OEM Consult port to connect to a tuner's laptop rather than cutting a hole in the ECU case for a USB port. So it is a fully reversible mod, especially when it comes to changing your ECU out for a Link standalone. There is no point in bothering to revert your ECU back to factory condition once you get a Nistune installed though, if you want the factory ECU map you can just flash it at any time and it will work just like factory. The only difference is unlike the OEM ECU you can see even more live diagnostic data. You will lose some conformal coating on the OEM ECU board in order to get to the solder joints so don't drop water on your ECU for any reason after that unless you apply new coating.

Tuning Nistune requires a different approach to how you would tune something like a Link, both because you're dealing with what is effectively compiled code (how the ECU does the math) and because the ECU uses MAF primarily as the load scaler. Most people are unfamiliar with how MAFs work.

 Sweet so my auto ecu will be taken out for a stand alone like link so I don’t need to worry about reverting the nistune ?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958206
Share on other sites
SLIXK Collaborator

SLIXK

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 5:31 PM, SLIXK said:

 Sweet so my auto ecu will be taken out for a stand alone like link so I don’t need to worry about reverting the nistune ?

 

On 11/29/2021 at 2:51 PM, joshuaho96 said:

The Nistune is a daughterboard that attaches to the OEM board. The Nistune Type 4 WC34 JECS board uses your OEM Consult port to connect to a tuner's laptop rather than cutting a hole in the ECU case for a USB port. So it is a fully reversible mod, especially when it comes to changing your ECU out for a Link standalone. There is no point in bothering to revert your ECU back to factory condition once you get a Nistune installed though, if you want the factory ECU map you can just flash it at any time and it will work just like factory. The only difference is unlike the OEM ECU you can see even more live diagnostic data. You will lose some conformal coating on the OEM ECU board in order to get to the solder joints so don't drop water on your ECU for any reason after that unless you apply new coating.

Tuning Nistune requires a different approach to how you would tune something like a Link, both because you're dealing with what is effectively compiled code (how the ECU does the math) and because the ECU uses MAF primarily as the load scaler. Most people are unfamiliar with how MAFs work.

When I upgrade to link that is hah

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958207
Share on other sites
joshuaho96 Veteran

joshuaho96

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 11/28/2021 at 6:35 PM, GTSBoy said:

Hardly. Load is load.

You have a point there, but the finer points of how the sensors work tends to be a reason why tuners don't like MAF-based tuning. The old hot wire sensors will see weird behavior in transients that requires min/max clamping. Card style hot film is better about reversion but the other issues still apply. There's also all the fun stuff that comes with MAFs on heavily modified intakes, usually OEM engineers sweat those details so there aren't weird issues causing a lot of noise in the MAF signal, etc...

I've talked to a number of tuners and even Haltech USA tells me nobody seems to care about MAF support in their ECUs, so they don't really have a lot of experience there. Link support will also say similar things, their near-universal advice is run speed density on their ECUs because tuners don't really use the MAF support so they don't put much effort into maintaining it properly.

Personally I don't care, if the factory setup is MAF and after thinking hard on the tradeoffs MAFs still make sense then I'll do whatever it takes to make it run properly, but I don't think that's how most tuners operate.

On 11/28/2021 at 8:31 PM, SLIXK said:

 Sweet so my auto ecu will be taken out for a stand alone like link so I don’t need to worry about reverting the nistune ?

Yes, there's no need to revert a Nistune mod. Personally I would keep it even after switching to a Link as a diagnostic tool while developing a base map properly.

Edited by joshuaho96
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958208
Share on other sites
GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted
On 11/29/2021 at 4:47 PM, joshuaho96 said:

Personally I don't care, if the factory setup is MAF and after thinking hard on the tradeoffs MAFs still make sense then I'll do whatever it takes to make it run properly, but I don't think that's how most tuners operate.

Once you're into "the AFM is suffering from reversion, etc" territory, it's time to slip the card type AFM into the cooler pipework and just sidestep all that old bullshit. We're >10 years into the new world of possibilities offered by the new AFMs.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/483045-high-end-burble/#findComment-7958209
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • djr81
      R32 update from 1990's spec.

      By djr81 · Posted

      New CAS just turned up from NZ Wiring. Looks like a nice bit of gear.  So, yeah. Triggered, bro. Realised I may as well do the cam belt while mucking about with it so will order one of them.
    • MBS206
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By MBS206 · Posted

      Even more fun, leave all the ADAS stuff plugged in, but in different locations, hopefully avoid any codes!   And honestly, all these new cars with their weird electronics. Pull all the electronics out Duncan, and just shove an aftermarket ECU and if needed a trans controller in, along with a PDM. Make it run basic but race car styled!
    • Duncan
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By Duncan · Posted

      To follow up a question from earlier too since I had the front bar off again (fking!) This is what is between the bumper and the drivers side wheel And this is the navigator side, only one thing but its a biggy! So basically....no putting coolers in the wheel arches without a lot of moving other stuff. Assuming I move to properly race prepping this car I'll take that job on and see how the computers respond to removing a whole bunch of ADAS modules
    • Duncan
      Duncan's V37.......race car?

      By Duncan · Posted

      So I prepped the car for another track day on Wednesday (will be interesting to see coolant temps post flushing out and the larger reservoir, with a forecast of 3-14 being 20o cooler than last time I took it out). Couple of things to mention; since I am just driving the car and not taking a support vehicle, I took the rear seats out and just loaded the back up Team Trackday style. Look at all that space! To cover off removing the rear seat....it is weird (note the hybrid is probably different because it wouldn't have folding rear seats) Basically, you remove the lower seat base, very similar to a r series but it is a clip that pulls forward to release the base rather than it being bolted down. Easy Then, you need to remove the side section of the rear seat on each side. There is a 14mm head nut at the bottom of the side piece, the it slides upwards off a hook at the top to release; you also need to unhook the seatbelt from the loop at the top. Then the centre piece is weird. You need to release/fold the seats forward with the tab in the boot on each side From there, there are 2,x12mm headed bolts holding the rear of each seat to the folding bracket, under the trim between the rear seat and the boot (4x christmas tree clips there, they suck). The seat is out but you can see where the bolts attach to the bracket
    • RP1421
      S15 Spec R

      By RP1421 · Posted

      As discussed in the previous post, the bushes in the 110 needed replacing. I took this opportunity to replace the castor bushes, the front lower control arm, lower the car and get the alignment dialled in with new tyres. I took it down to Alignment Motorsports on the GC to get this work done and also get more out of the Shockworks as I felt like I wasn't getting the full use out of them.  To cut a very long story short, it ended up being the case the passenger side castor arm wouldn't accept the brand new bush as the sleeve had worn badly enough to the point you could push the new bush in by hand and completely through. Trying a pair of TRD bushes didn't fix the issue either (I had originally gone with Hardrace bushes). We needed to urgently source another castor arm, and thankfully this was sourced and the guys at the shop worked on my car until 7pm on a Saturday to get everything done. The car rides a lot nicer now with the suspension dialled in properly. Lowered the car a little as well to suit the lower profile front tyres, and just bring the car down generally. Eternally thankful for the guys down at the shop to get the car sorted, we both pulled big favours from our contacts to get it done on the Saturday.  Also plugged in the new Stedi foglights into the S15, and even from a quick test in the garage I'm keen to see how they look out on the road. I had some concerns about the length of the LED body and whether it'd fit in the foglight housing but it's fine.  I've got a small window coming up next month where I'll likely get a little paint work done on the 110 to remove the rear wing, add a boot wing and roof wing, get the side skirt fixed up and colour match the little panel on the tail lights so that I can install some badges that I've kept in storage. I'm also tempted to put in a new pair of headlights on the 110.  Until then, here's some more pictures from Easter this year. 
×
×
  • Create New...