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Whats your fuel temps?

Predator1

By Predator1,
in Engines & Forced Induction

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Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted

On the track (as in a circuit not a 400 straight line) I've seen my fuel temps go above 65 degrees after 10 laps of Wakefield.

Day to day driving around town probably 30s to 40s, mind you I run PWM so both pumps in the surge are duty cycled. The DW200 lift pump however is just on factory wiring with the resistor deleted.

And no your fuel temp isn't that high.

BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted

Not high at all. In the NT until I staged my two 400lph AEM external pumps with twin -8 feeds from surge with AEM 340lph in tank pump I was seeing 70 - 75 on the highway, ambients were above 40 though. After staging the 400s the temps came down under 50.

On the other 32 with PWM we had similar reduction in temp as Johnny suggested on a single Walbro 525lph pump.

  • Like 1
GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted
On 3/28/2022 at 9:23 AM, Predator1 said:

Thinking of adding the Setrab fan assisted cooler.

I wouldn't bother unless;

  • You're having fuel temp related problems that you didn't mention, or
  • You're going to change the way that you use the car that could/would lead to heat either increasing or being more of an issue, or
  • You like introducing more points of failure.
  • Like 1
Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted

I would not stage the pumps and duty cycle them together and ramp them up based on MAP (as the load axis).

At 100hz, the Walbro 450/460s don't like any duty under 40% they start to make an awful hum, however any higher they seem ok!

I suspect your pumps wouldn't be too far off that.

Part of the problem you have is 1x pump is always at full filt _ your lift pump. They're heating up your fuel unnecessarily. 

 

Also, if you have proper injector data and fuel data i.e. fuel temp vs fuel density vs. ethanol then there's no real issue with warm fuel.

This is how I've done mine (note must tuning shops will not do this, as customers don't pay them enough for their time - Link and MoTec have this predefined).

image.thumb.png.1907e8fa6b99748a9fc2f07c6edd00d7.png

BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 12:47 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I would not stage the pumps and duty cycle them together and ramp them up based on MAP (as the load axis).

At 100hz, the Walbro 450/460s don't like any duty under 40% they start to make an awful hum, however any higher they seem ok!

I suspect your pumps wouldn't be too far off that.

Part of the problem you have is 1x pump is always at full filt _ your lift pump. They're heating up your fuel unnecessarily. 

 

Also, if you have proper injector data and fuel data i.e. fuel temp vs fuel density vs. ethanol then there's no real issue with warm fuel.

This is how I've done mine (note must tuning shops will not do this, as customers don't pay them enough for their time - Link and MoTec have this predefined).

image.thumb.png.1907e8fa6b99748a9fc2f07c6edd00d7.png

I used your fuel density table you sent me and put it in the Elite before Simon tuned it at Morpowa last year, very handy 👍

  • Like 1
Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 2:23 PM, BK said:

I used your fuel density table you sent me and put it in the Elite before Simon tuned it at Morpowa last year, very handy 👍

no more silly AFR hunting at idle, regardless of fuel temp or big injectors :) 

Haltech is great, provided it's used properly.

Predator1 Rising Star

Predator1

Posted
  • Author
Posted

400902463_FPSetup.thumb.PNG.dab39a5be7e6b07d86d35f35dda0a9c0.PNG14233463_FPDuty.thumb.PNG.239b18e14e711d2820d01921307e2cd9.PNG

 

Funny you mentioned the hum noise, cos mine makes that too. I noticed in the logs stats, from memory my max Inj DC is around 38%.. So judging by that, my FP's sitting under 70%?? I think with PWM its the opposite?

What's your PWM setup?

 

On 28/03/2022 at 4:17 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

I would not stage the pumps and duty cycle them together and ramp them up based on MAP (as the load axis).

At 100hz, the Walbro 450/460s don't like any duty under 40% they start to make an awful hum, however any higher they seem ok!

I suspect your pumps wouldn't be too far off that.

Part of the problem you have is 1x pump is always at full filt _ your lift pump. They're heating up your fuel unnecessarily. 

 

Also, if you have proper injector data and fuel data i.e. fuel temp vs fuel density vs. ethanol then there's no real issue with warm fuel.

This is how I've done mine (note must tuning shops will not do this, as customers don't pay them enough for their time - Link and MoTec have this predefined).

image.thumb.png.1907e8fa6b99748a9fc2f07c6edd00d7.png

 

Predator1 Rising Star

Predator1

Posted
  • Author
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 5:30 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

ooo I lied, I run it at 200hz

image.thumb.png.28d48641d64f99dde2fbb0f277e4f30a.png

 

It's 100AMP Jaycar SSR, with flyback diodes on each Walbro 450L

Ah yeah so mines at 250hz, doubt that be an issue. The tuner didnt stick flybacks on my SSR which I always was a bit dubious about. I run the 100A SSR too. 

Dose Pipe Sutututu Grand Master

Dose Pipe Sutututu

Posted
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 3:38 PM, Predator1 said:

The tuner didnt stick flybacks on my SSR which I always was a bit dubious about

You need flyback diodes, if not your SSRs would be ripping hot and will fail with time.

BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 2:10 PM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

Look at us, all so modern :) 

Love it - running all pumps full tilt all the time is stupid!

I'd like to PWM the blue 32 with the twin 400 pumps, but can't be stuffed so it will stay staged. It works perfectly and probably draws less current than PWMing 2 pumps simultaneously. PWM on the primary external and keep the secondary staged if I can be bothered would be the go.

For Predator1 - absolutely use a flyback diode as above. I like the 1N5404 at 400v / 3A for a bit of overkill.

  • Like 1
BK Grand Master

BK

Posted
Posted
On 28/03/2022 at 2:26 PM, Predator1 said:

Thanks guys. I'm just concerned about my tune. 

So safe to just stick 1 flyback across the SSR terminals that go towards my pumps? I think both pumps get their positive from the SSR. I'll have to double check.

The best place for a flyback diode is at the load, so across the pump terminals ideally.

.IMG_20210626_115220_0.thumb.jpg.4b9eaa7b756269c3b7d8cf71b3c8eb65.jpg

  • Like 1

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