R34 GTT - Bottom end build question

[LjB123]

5 minutes ago, No Crust Racing said:

Yes deck surface can have soft spots, you would ideally check it for hardness (quick/cheap) but these blocks are not as prone to that as others.

Guarantee you the shop will not clean it enough, it's your job to ensure its minty fresh clean as it's your wallet.

 

Oil filter is not designed to filter that level of debris, oil coolers really cannot be cleaned out properly.

 

You will want to have the turbo inspected at minimum incase it's already scored and I strongly suggest fitting Inline filter to the feed.

Thanks for that. How can I test it for hardness? I thought generally you would need a gauge for that and theyre fairly expensive?

I'm fine buying a new oil cooler and heater unit, theyre relatively inexpensive. I am close by to a few turbo places like GCG and Precision Turbos who I am happy to get it to them and pay for them to pull apart and clean it our properly, will still be cheaper than a new turbo I imagine, and definitely cheaper than an upgraded one which would require new parts. I'm not after huge power at this point, maybe in a couple years time, but this is just a weekend car for street use. I don't plan on doing any track days, as I barely have spare time for that sort of thing, and want to keep this car for as long as possible. I will look at getting an inline turbo filter. 

Should I also upgrade the sump and install oil restrictors while im at it? are they worth it? I was going to get a new N1 oil pump, not sure if those are necessary with keeping a stock oil pump or will serve any advantage?

[LjB123]

2 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

No. If there is loose metal, then it will be stuck all over the place. And if/when it shakes loose after the rebuild, it will cause damage to your new stuff. It's not to be contemplated.

I would probably be better off sending the turbo off to one of the local turbo places like GCG or Precision Turbos to get a full clean out. They would definitely be able to do a proper job of it

[GTSBoy]

You do realise we're talking about the whole engine being excruiciatingly cleaned out? Not just the turbo? Right?

[LjB123]

23 minutes ago, GTSBoy said:

You do realise we're talking about the whole engine being excruiciatingly cleaned out? Not just the turbo? Right?

I did mention in a comment you replied to about getting another bottom end for $2000. Also said in other comments since I will be getting a new oil cooler, heater core, probably new lines, new N1 oil pump

[Murray_Calavera]

1 hour ago, LjB123 said:

I did mention in a comment you replied to about getting another bottom end for $2000. Also said in other comments since I will be getting a new oil cooler, heater core, probably new lines, new N1 oil pump

Isn't it going to be cheaper to just grab a complete RB25 from somewhere like Skyline Spares that has a start up warranty? 

By the time you've nickel and dimed yourself into oblivion and spent all this time with machine shops and turbo shops, you could have just dropped in another stock long motor? 

Then with your car up and running again, you can take your time to strip and build your current motor into something special.

[LjB123]

12 minutes ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Isn't it going to be cheaper to just grab a complete RB25 from somewhere like Skyline Spares that has a start up warranty? 

By the time you've nickel and dimed yourself into oblivion and spent all this time with machine shops and turbo shops, you could have just dropped in another stock long motor? 

Then with your car up and running again, you can take your time to strip and build your current motor into something special.

Good luck finding a complete RB25DET Neo engine

[GTSBoy]

2 hours ago, LjB123 said:

I did mention in a comment you replied to about getting another bottom end for $2000. Also said in other comments since I will be getting a new oil cooler, heater core, probably new lines, new N1 oil pump

Sorry, I thought you'd circled back around to the rebuild.

[No Crust Racing]

3 hours ago, LjB123 said:

Thanks for that. How can I test it for hardness? I thought generally you would need a gauge for that and theyre fairly expensive?

I'm fine buying a new oil cooler and heater unit, theyre relatively inexpensive. I am close by to a few turbo places like GCG and Precision Turbos who I am happy to get it to them and pay for them to pull apart and clean it our properly, will still be cheaper than a new turbo I imagine, and definitely cheaper than an upgraded one which would require new parts. I'm not after huge power at this point, maybe in a couple years time, but this is just a weekend car for street use. I don't plan on doing any track days, as I barely have spare time for that sort of thing, and want to keep this car for as long as possible. I will look at getting an inline turbo filter. 

Should I also upgrade the sump and install oil restrictors while im at it? are they worth it? I was going to get a new N1 oil pump, not sure if those are necessary with keeping a stock oil pump or will serve any advantage?

The machine shop will do it for you. 

As was said, you need to remove all the oil gallery plugs, inc the crank, VVT solenoids/gears etc and clean everything thoroughly top to bottom then clean it again and when you think it's clean, clean it once more. As for upgrades that all depends on the goal, there's a number of basic things you would do with an engine apart if you have access/time/budget. 

N1 oil pump not needed for 300kw, oil restrictors and external drain is nice to have.

I would be looking for a complete good engine with a known history and either building this current one on the side slowly or selling it for whatever you can get, and you will still need to be mindful of the turbo, external oil lines etc as bearing material ends up EVERYWHERE. 

2k for a known good bottom end and a very thorough clean/service of the head is likely the cheapest/fastest route from where you are right now. 

Can you do all this work yourself or is this going to a workshop? As that has an impact on what you do also. 

[Murray_Calavera]

1 hour ago, LjB123 said:

Good luck finding a complete RB25DET Neo engine

A few months ago now when I was in Sydney for WTA, I visited Skyline Spares, they had RB's in stock. I'd be amazed if they have no long motors now. 

Have you spoken to them to confirm they don't have stock?

Edited February 25, 2024 by Murray_Calavera

[No Crust Racing]

3 minutes ago, Murray_Calavera said:

A few months ago now when I was in Sydney for WTA, I visited Skyline Spares, they had RB's in stock. I'd be amazed if they have no long motors now. 

Have you spoken to them to confirm they don't have stock?

He probs doesn't wanna pay the BS wrecker prices. 

To be fair, for the prices they are asking ,you would expect them to be testing/proven etc, and I have seen plenty (across various platforms) that are straight up pieces of shit. 

Not saying this is the case here, but buyer beware etc. 

[LjB123]

8 hours ago, No Crust Racing said:

The machine shop will do it for you. 

As was said, you need to remove all the oil gallery plugs, inc the crank, VVT solenoids/gears etc and clean everything thoroughly top to bottom then clean it again and when you think it's clean, clean it once more. As for upgrades that all depends on the goal, there's a number of basic things you would do with an engine apart if you have access/time/budget. 

N1 oil pump not needed for 300kw, oil restrictors and external drain is nice to have.

I would be looking for a complete good engine with a known history and either building this current one on the side slowly or selling it for whatever you can get, and you will still need to be mindful of the turbo, external oil lines etc as bearing material ends up EVERYWHERE. 

2k for a known good bottom end and a very thorough clean/service of the head is likely the cheapest/fastest route from where you are right now. 

Can you do all this work yourself or is this going to a workshop? As that has an impact on what you do also. 

I don’t have a heap of spare time, running my own fabrication and welding business, so getting a shop to do all the work. I know a little about engine building, but wouldnt trust myself with something to this extent do happy to pay someone to do it properly. So reckon the $2000 bottom end from a blown headgasket engine is the go? Atleast that wont need a full clean out of bearing material

 

I believe the N1 is the stock oil pump on the Neo engines anyway. Will definitely do restrictors on it and likely the return drain too while im at it

[LjB123]

8 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

A few months ago now when I was in Sydney for WTA, I visited Skyline Spares, they had RB's in stock. I'd be amazed if they have no long motors now. 

Have you spoken to them to confirm they don't have stock?

Was going to call them today, but would have thought with alot of stock they would have had that advertised

[LjB123]

8 hours ago, No Crust Racing said:

He probs doesn't wanna pay the BS wrecker prices. 

To be fair, for the prices they are asking ,you would expect them to be testing/proven etc, and I have seen plenty (across various platforms) that are straight up pieces of shit. 

Not saying this is the case here, but buyer beware etc. 

yeah i think the price for the blown head gasket bottom end is worth it. Just get all new bearings and seals, get the piston and rod health checked out, make sure the bore is definitely all good, and go from there with it. There was a private guy selling a complete RB25DET Neo and had compression test from when it was in the car at 160-165 across al cylinders for $5000 but got snatched up pretty quick

[No Crust Racing]

What is the budget, what is the goal, What workshop is actually doing the work for you? 

I would define the variables first then start talking with the workshop, they often know of engines/parts around and will have a preferred machinist and can give some quotes so you can make informed decisions, at the moment it seems like you're just throwing ideas around (which is fine) but doesn't move the project forward. 

You already have a fresh head, you're only a set of rods/pistons/bolts/studs away from having a bottom end to match it and a motor that's basically brand new. You will be paying for machining and labour either way so that's already spent. 

That shouldn't come to 20k. 

[LjB123]

2 hours ago, No Crust Racing said:

What is the budget, what is the goal, What workshop is actually doing the work for you? 

I would define the variables first then start talking with the workshop, they often know of engines/parts around and will have a preferred machinist and can give some quotes so you can make informed decisions, at the moment it seems like you're just throwing ideas around (which is fine) but doesn't move the project forward. 

You already have a fresh head, you're only a set of rods/pistons/bolts/studs away from having a bottom end to match it and a motor that's basically brand new. You will be paying for machining and labour either way so that's already spent. 

That shouldn't come to 20k. 

The budget is whatever to get the car back on the road. I’ve literally owned it for not even 2 months, i just want to enjoy it. I don’t want to do track days, i don’t want to drift it. Its a street car, for me to go on cruises with some friends and enjoy driving it as an R34 has been my dream car since I was a kid and played Need for Speed, and a GTR is out if the budget these days. I don’t want to make monster power, it was making 400hp at the wheels on full boost at one point with the current setup, so would like to get it back to that/close to it, or whatever the tuner recommends as reliable

Im booked in with TME Motorsport near me. They identified the leaking exhaust valve for me in the first place during a check over, but didnt have time to do the work and i threw some other workshops / tuners names to him and I ended up going with Elite Motorsport, who organised the head service and upgrades, once the head was back on they identified the slight engine knock and that it was losing power at peak torque. They didnt have time to do the engine work for over a month so went back to TME, they were happy to take the work on in early March, get the engine out, see whats exactly wrong, and work out what we will do

Edited February 25, 2024 by LjB123

[No Crust Racing]

7 minutes ago, LjB123 said:

The budget is whatever to get the car back on the road. I’ve literally owned it for not even 2 months, i just want to enjoy it. I don’t want to do track days, i don’t want to drift it. Its a street car, for me to go on cruises with some friends and enjoy driving it as an R34 has been my dream car since I was a kid and played Need for Speed, and a GTR is out if the budget these days. I don’t want to make monster power, it was making 400hp at the wheels on full boost at one point with the current setup, so would like to get it back to that/close to it, or whatever the tuner recommends as reliable

Im booked in with TME Motorsport near me. They identified the leaking exhaust valve for me in the first place during a check over, but didnt have time to do the work and i threw some other workshops / tuners names to him and I ended up going with Elite Motorsport, who organised the head service and upgrades, once the head was back on they identified the slight engine knock and that it was losing power at peak torque. They didnt have time to do the engine work for over a month so went back to TME, they were happy to take the work on in early March, get the engine out, see whats exactly wrong, and work out what we will do

That's rough, R34 GT-R was my dream build too so I did a mock up Z Tune build which I loved looking at, but not maintaining. 

Honestly, don't cut corners, just put a basic forged build together and know that the car is not being pushed to give you 300kw and there's always room to move if you want to plus it will sell better later. 

Buy once, cry once. 

That's my 2 cents. 

[LjB123]

5 minutes ago, No Crust Racing said:

That's rough, R34 GT-R was my dream build too so I did a mock up Z Tune build which I loved looking at, but not maintaining. 

Honestly, don't cut corners, just put a basic forged build together and know that the car is not being pushed to give you 300kw and there's always room to move if you want to plus it will sell better later. 

Buy once, cry once. 

That's my 2 cents. 

Reckon its worth getting the $2000 block to use as a base? Issue i have is if someone buys that block within the next 2 weeks before the engine is taken out to check over, im kind of stuffed trying to find another block if my current block is damaged, or the crank is damaged and needs major machining

[No Crust Racing]

3 minutes ago, LjB123 said:

Reckon its worth getting the $2000 block to use as a base? Issue i have is if someone buys that block within the next 2 weeks before the engine is taken out to check over, im kind of stuffed trying to find another block if my current block is damaged, or the crank is damaged and needs major machining

What are you gaining from it? You're not going to be re-using rods/pistons and your crank is likely fine with a polish/linish and at worst some different grade bearing shells? 

I'm not sure there's 2k of value in it for you? You can always buy it for peace of mind and keep it as a spare/sell if you find out it's not needed. 

Offer him $1500 for quick cash sale etc, always low ball. 

[LjB123]

52 minutes ago, No Crust Racing said:

What are you gaining from it? You're not going to be re-using rods/pistons and your crank is likely fine with a polish/linish and at worst some different grade bearing shells? 

I'm not sure there's 2k of value in it for you? You can always buy it for peace of mind and keep it as a spare/sell if you find out it's not needed. 

Offer him $1500 for quick cash sale etc, always low ball. 

True. Whats some good pistons to go with? Was looking at Spool Imports

[No Crust Racing]

If you are buying new, just get a spool kit, but better yet ask your engine builder what they like to use. I go with CP because my engine builder told me to. I also went Nitto I beams and CA625 rod bolts because my engine builder told me to. Research shows that's a strong rod/piston combo, but that's a 4 cyl trying to make more power than you air aiming for so the HP/L equation is worse.

Have a quick look on marketplace at least, you would be surprised what stuff comes up for dirt cheap. 

 

Edited February 25, 2024 by No Crust Racing