Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I'm curious into whats involved in a dry sump set up.

I don't know enough about them to weigh up if it's worth doing.

I'm slowly building up a 26/30 thats estimated at 600hp going into a 240Z that will see some weekend street and track driving.

How do they work?

What does it mean by 4 and 5 stage pumps?

Can a normal RB sump be modded to suit a dry sump?.

What price range would I be looking at for a simple setup?

Does anyone have pics and experiences using dry sumps?

Thats all the questions I can think of atm.

Edited by retrotec
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/
Share on other sites

If you cant do any of the work yourself it will cost you around 6g. If you can make everything yourself and I mean everything brackets, custom aluminium machining filter setups etc it will still set you back around 2.5g with new parts. THere is alot of work involved to do it correctly, and not for someone to take on that hasnt had experience with oiling systems before.

4 stage menas there is for drive cogs inside the pump. 3 for scavenge and 1 for oil pressure, 5 means there are 4 scavenge and 6 is 5 scavenge etc. They work as a vacuum pump that draws oil out of the engine under vacuum into the pump then the oil is pumped back out under pressure to an oil reserve(this is the scavenge). the oil enters the reserve at the top and fills and pressurizes the oil in the tank and has an oil supply line (fromt the bottom of the tank) back to the pump on the pressure in side ( the first stage ie. pressure). this oil is re pressured through the pump and goes onto your engine. A normal sump can be modded to suit dry sump. I have pics of them setup on v8s and experience but I havent done my rb series yet and that is on serious back burner, not a priority, so sorry no pics.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1557879
Share on other sites

This is a Peterson 5 Stage dry sump system as used on a V8SuperCar

5stgdia.jpg

As you can see it has 4 scavenge stages and 1 pressure stage.

This is the tank design we use, it holds 8.5 litres plus about 2.5 litres in the lines, pipework, cooler and filter.

3galtank.jpg

If you shop around there are plenty of used dry sump systems available. For a GTR you would be looking at a 4 stage system (scavenge, 2 sump, 1 cylinder head and 1 pressure). I bought one recently for just under $2K complete, pump, belt pulleys, fittings, lines, tank and breather. That $2K is about what an aftermarket RB26 pump and adaptor ring would have cost. I used the standard aircon bracket to mount the pump to the block. Bit of fabrication but not much.

As well as perfect lubrication we picked up around 12 bhp from removing the oily mist from the crankcase (stops the crank hitting it on rotation) and around 8 bhp from running a partial vacuum. Also the cam covers no longer fill up with oil, which lowers the CoG, the tank is mounted in the boot with the filter and the cooler under in the airflow. This moves around 15kgs from the front of the car to the rear for improved weight distribution.

Hope that was of some help

:P cheers :D

Edited by Sydneykid
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1557956
Share on other sites

SK, is $2k really representative of the true cost of setting something like this up?

Does it include the cost of modifying the sump? What would installation and fabrication cost if you weren't able to do it yourself?

IMO dry sumping is right up at the pointy end of the hardcore scale (ie serious race cars).

Where can you buy these things second hand and where can you get them checked out?

I've heard of a few people buying ex race car stuff from the US, can't point you to an exact place tho.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1559777
Share on other sites

Sorry for the question - but im assuming you would require alot more oil for this setup?

Don't apologise, read, esp. SK's post you might learn summin. :P

This is the tank design we use, it holds 8.5 litres plus about 2.5 litres in the lines, pipework, cooler and filter.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560245
Share on other sites

No, because alot of the oil cans have heaters built in to them, to allow instant warm-up.

Although I can recall SK boasting he can do a dry sump for $500, $2K is getting more realistic.... but $4K is a more likely figure.

Two pics showing some of the pre-heaters available. There are the electric blankets going around the outside of the can, as well as a big probe that sticks up through the bottom to about halfway up the can.

post-4735-1125645898.jpg

post-4735-1125645926.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560266
Share on other sites

I would never do one as a kit for a customer to fit themselves, there are to many variables when dealing with inexperienced people on important things like oiling systems. If you where to do a kit there is no way you could it for less than around $4 with all the brackets, sump mods, lines fittings, filter setup etc. Add to this there are a few approaches to doing it on a rb series, with a few of them not being very good....

Buying second hand is risky but it can be done, try ebay, the thing is they still go for pretty good money, plus shipping to Oz is around $120 on the last dry sump pump I got sent, and if you get it here and its no good you have to send it back to the states for service around $200-300 plus shipping both ways. It adds up!!!!!

I think when SK said 2k he meant parts no labour or fabrications. The sump mods alone are worth around $500 if you take it to a metal worker more from performance shops.

Retro there is no scavenge from the sump to the pump, there is pressure in and this is basically your oil supply line from the tank. IF people want to learn a little more general info about oiling systems go to moroso.com or petersonfluidsystems.com

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560318
Share on other sites

excellent. i was going to atempt to do thes conversion but i wanted to retain my a/c.

if there is an engine that needs a drysump it a rb26.

instead im making a 10 litre baffeld wet sump. $60 for the alloy and $200 for setting up the diff(gts4 donor sump)

but i would be VERY interested in pics etc about your setup. ive spent hours on hours searching the net for gtr specific setups. and got ZIP!!

but yes all the nascar ebay shops seem to be the go for all the seconhand stuff.etc

-14 lines and stuff and pumps and oil tanks.

also some good pics on how to set up the innards of a dry sump oil pan.

im looking forward to seeing the setup.

ps. i understand if you want to protect your har earned r and d. :)

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1561273
Share on other sites

just run a jun oil pump im running one in my car making 1068rwhp

available from croydon or the trust oil pump available from autobarn

I didnt think the problem was a result of the pump, but rather oil starvation at the pickup during high lateral G's.

Excuse my ignorance but how much of this problem could be fixed (for occasional track use) by increasing oil capacity and adding some strategic windage (sp?) in the sump. Is there also a problem with oil gathering in the rocker covers and not making it down to the sump?, if so can additonal (external) lines be added between the sump and head.

PS - I realise in a dedicated track car the dry sump would be a better option, but many of us are not that serious and want a weekend - tack/street/drag/drift(?) car.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1561937
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563590
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563650
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

post-193-1125883023.jpg

post-193-1125883086.jpg

post-193-1125883125.jpg

post-193-1125883265.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563658
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
×
×
  • Create New...