Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

I'm curious into whats involved in a dry sump set up.

I don't know enough about them to weigh up if it's worth doing.

I'm slowly building up a 26/30 thats estimated at 600hp going into a 240Z that will see some weekend street and track driving.

How do they work?

What does it mean by 4 and 5 stage pumps?

Can a normal RB sump be modded to suit a dry sump?.

What price range would I be looking at for a simple setup?

Does anyone have pics and experiences using dry sumps?

Thats all the questions I can think of atm.

Edited by retrotec
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/
Share on other sites

If you cant do any of the work yourself it will cost you around 6g. If you can make everything yourself and I mean everything brackets, custom aluminium machining filter setups etc it will still set you back around 2.5g with new parts. THere is alot of work involved to do it correctly, and not for someone to take on that hasnt had experience with oiling systems before.

4 stage menas there is for drive cogs inside the pump. 3 for scavenge and 1 for oil pressure, 5 means there are 4 scavenge and 6 is 5 scavenge etc. They work as a vacuum pump that draws oil out of the engine under vacuum into the pump then the oil is pumped back out under pressure to an oil reserve(this is the scavenge). the oil enters the reserve at the top and fills and pressurizes the oil in the tank and has an oil supply line (fromt the bottom of the tank) back to the pump on the pressure in side ( the first stage ie. pressure). this oil is re pressured through the pump and goes onto your engine. A normal sump can be modded to suit dry sump. I have pics of them setup on v8s and experience but I havent done my rb series yet and that is on serious back burner, not a priority, so sorry no pics.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1557879
Share on other sites

This is a Peterson 5 Stage dry sump system as used on a V8SuperCar

5stgdia.jpg

As you can see it has 4 scavenge stages and 1 pressure stage.

This is the tank design we use, it holds 8.5 litres plus about 2.5 litres in the lines, pipework, cooler and filter.

3galtank.jpg

If you shop around there are plenty of used dry sump systems available. For a GTR you would be looking at a 4 stage system (scavenge, 2 sump, 1 cylinder head and 1 pressure). I bought one recently for just under $2K complete, pump, belt pulleys, fittings, lines, tank and breather. That $2K is about what an aftermarket RB26 pump and adaptor ring would have cost. I used the standard aircon bracket to mount the pump to the block. Bit of fabrication but not much.

As well as perfect lubrication we picked up around 12 bhp from removing the oily mist from the crankcase (stops the crank hitting it on rotation) and around 8 bhp from running a partial vacuum. Also the cam covers no longer fill up with oil, which lowers the CoG, the tank is mounted in the boot with the filter and the cooler under in the airflow. This moves around 15kgs from the front of the car to the rear for improved weight distribution.

Hope that was of some help

:P cheers :D

Edited by Sydneykid
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1557956
Share on other sites

SK, is $2k really representative of the true cost of setting something like this up?

Does it include the cost of modifying the sump? What would installation and fabrication cost if you weren't able to do it yourself?

IMO dry sumping is right up at the pointy end of the hardcore scale (ie serious race cars).

Where can you buy these things second hand and where can you get them checked out?

I've heard of a few people buying ex race car stuff from the US, can't point you to an exact place tho.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1559777
Share on other sites

Sorry for the question - but im assuming you would require alot more oil for this setup?

Don't apologise, read, esp. SK's post you might learn summin. :P

This is the tank design we use, it holds 8.5 litres plus about 2.5 litres in the lines, pipework, cooler and filter.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560245
Share on other sites

No, because alot of the oil cans have heaters built in to them, to allow instant warm-up.

Although I can recall SK boasting he can do a dry sump for $500, $2K is getting more realistic.... but $4K is a more likely figure.

Two pics showing some of the pre-heaters available. There are the electric blankets going around the outside of the can, as well as a big probe that sticks up through the bottom to about halfway up the can.

post-4735-1125645898.jpg

post-4735-1125645926.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560266
Share on other sites

I would never do one as a kit for a customer to fit themselves, there are to many variables when dealing with inexperienced people on important things like oiling systems. If you where to do a kit there is no way you could it for less than around $4 with all the brackets, sump mods, lines fittings, filter setup etc. Add to this there are a few approaches to doing it on a rb series, with a few of them not being very good....

Buying second hand is risky but it can be done, try ebay, the thing is they still go for pretty good money, plus shipping to Oz is around $120 on the last dry sump pump I got sent, and if you get it here and its no good you have to send it back to the states for service around $200-300 plus shipping both ways. It adds up!!!!!

I think when SK said 2k he meant parts no labour or fabrications. The sump mods alone are worth around $500 if you take it to a metal worker more from performance shops.

Retro there is no scavenge from the sump to the pump, there is pressure in and this is basically your oil supply line from the tank. IF people want to learn a little more general info about oiling systems go to moroso.com or petersonfluidsystems.com

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1560318
Share on other sites

excellent. i was going to atempt to do thes conversion but i wanted to retain my a/c.

if there is an engine that needs a drysump it a rb26.

instead im making a 10 litre baffeld wet sump. $60 for the alloy and $200 for setting up the diff(gts4 donor sump)

but i would be VERY interested in pics etc about your setup. ive spent hours on hours searching the net for gtr specific setups. and got ZIP!!

but yes all the nascar ebay shops seem to be the go for all the seconhand stuff.etc

-14 lines and stuff and pumps and oil tanks.

also some good pics on how to set up the innards of a dry sump oil pan.

im looking forward to seeing the setup.

ps. i understand if you want to protect your har earned r and d. :)

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1561273
Share on other sites

just run a jun oil pump im running one in my car making 1068rwhp

available from croydon or the trust oil pump available from autobarn

I didnt think the problem was a result of the pump, but rather oil starvation at the pickup during high lateral G's.

Excuse my ignorance but how much of this problem could be fixed (for occasional track use) by increasing oil capacity and adding some strategic windage (sp?) in the sump. Is there also a problem with oil gathering in the rocker covers and not making it down to the sump?, if so can additonal (external) lines be added between the sump and head.

PS - I realise in a dedicated track car the dry sump would be a better option, but many of us are not that serious and want a weekend - tack/street/drag/drift(?) car.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1561937
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563590
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563650
Share on other sites

A wet sump done correctly will provide a 95% perfect result, however it cant make you horsepower, and sometimes packaging a good wet sump it a problem due to ground clearence. For a street car a dry sump is overkill. I have made three custom wet sumps, one was 11 litres, the other 2 are 7.5-8 litres, I also make a custom trap door system for the inside. To be honest I dont think many of us could dirve our cars hard enough to warrant anything more substantial than a good wet system, the advantage on the dry sump as I see it is the small horsepower gains.

Heres some pics

post-193-1125883023.jpg

post-193-1125883086.jpg

post-193-1125883125.jpg

post-193-1125883265.jpg

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/86055-dry-sump-set-ups/#findComment-1563658
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • But first....while I was there, I also swapped across the centre console box for the other style where the AV inputs don't intrude into the (very limited !) space.  Part# was 96926-4GA0A, 284H3-4GA0B, 284H3-4GA0A. (I've already swapped the top 12v socket for a USB bulkhead in this pic, it fit the hole without modification:) Basically to do the console you need to remove the DS and PS side console trim (they slide up and back, held in by clips only) Then remove the back half of the console top trim with the cupholders, pops up, all clips again but be careful at the front as it is pretty flimsy. Then slide the shifter boot down, remove the spring clip, loose it forever somewhere in the car the pull the shift knob off. Remove the tiny plastic piece on DS near "P" and use something thin and long (most screwdrivers won't fit) to push down the interlock and put the shifter down in D for space. There is one screw at the front, then the shifter surround and ashtray lift up. There are 3 or 4 plugs underneath and it is off. Next is the rear cover of the centre console; you need to open the console lid, pop off the trim covering the lid hinge and undo the 2rd screw from the driver's side (the rest all need to come out later so you can do them all now and remove the lid) Then the rear cover unclips (6 clips), start at the top with a trim tool pulling backwards. Once it is off there are 2 screws facing rearwards to remove (need a short phillips for these) and you are done with the rear of the console. There are 4 plugs at the A/V box to unclip Then there are 2 screws at the front of the console, and 2 clips (pull up and back) and the console will come out.
    • So, a bit of a side trip, but one that might be interesting for people with JDM cars and japanese head units. I know @Pac previously posted about a carplay/android auto adapter he installed which used the AUX input, and @V35_Paul put in one of the Tesla style units that replace both screens. The option I went with was a Lsait LLT-YF-VER5.87_2 (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lsailt-8GB-Android-Multimedia-Interface-for_1601187633672.html). Price was $1,150 for a single unit although they are much cheaper if you are willing to buy 2....$857ea. Make you you get the version 2 not version 1, it is faster and has a better UI - this is the manufacturer listing: http://www.lsailt.com/product/348.html. BTW if you've never bought from Alibaba before, don't be concerned....these guys can't stay in business unless they are responsive, ship fast etc, they were excellent (probably faster shipping than most local places) So, this was my task for a lazy Sat afternoon....looks complex but was all done in a few hours (it probably helps that I had some of it apart before so it was a bit familiar). I also decided to add a HD USB drive recorded at the same time and the unit also supports an aftermarket reverse cam (if you don't want to retain factory) and also AV in and HDMI out It looks much worse than it is, in fact in was genuinely all plug and play (no custom wiring at all). This video was pretty good (skipped a few steps), unfortunately they are an Aussie seller but no longer sell this unit (I guess Carplay/AA adapters are easier to install and much cheaper) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5hJfYOB8Dg
    • That still isn't a lot to go on. I don't have a Y50 Fuga Head Unit wiring diagram. I can say that a lot of nissans of that age shared head unit plugs, so if you are in Australia something like this would probably help: https://aerpro.com/app091# You plug that into the car loom, then either plug the head unit ISO into that (if it has ISO), or you buy and ISO adapter harness that you wire in. Bit of stuffing around, but once you have ISO its easy to change things in future.
    • It is a kunfine Android screen . Does anyone know the wirering diagram of the fuga ??
    • just an update to this, poor man pays twice  Tried sanding down the pulleys but it didnt do the trick. Chucked another second hand alternator in the na car which I got for free off my mate and its fixed the squelling. Must have been unlucky with the bearings.    As for my turbo car, I managed to pick up a cwc rb alternator conversion bracket + LS alternator for 250 off marketplace, looked to be in really good nick. Installed it , started the car and its not charging the battery.... ( Im not good with auto elec stuff so im not sure if this was all I needed to do but I verified such by using a multimeter on the battery when the engine was running and I was only getting 12.2v )   I had to modify the earth strap for the new LS alternator , factory earth strap was a 10mm bolt which did not fit the bolt on the LS alternator which was double the size so I cut it off , went to repco bought some ring terminals that fit, crimped it onto the old earth strap and bolted it up to the alternator , started the car and same issue. Ran like shit and was reading 12.2 at the battery.  For a "plug and play" advertised kit thats not very plug and play but alas.  My question is , am I missing something ? Ive been reading that some people recommend upgrading the stock 80 amp alternator fuse to a 140 amp but I dont see how that would stop the alternator charging especially at idle not under load.  Regardless ive pulled it out and am going to get it bench tested by an auto elec tomorrow but it would be handy to know if ive missed something silly or have done something wrong.   
×
×
  • Create New...