What Is Wrong With Adjustable Arms

[GTRgeoff]

As promised, pictures of the ugly things. Skinny across the shell with casting marks remaining (stress concentrators and crack propagation points). A couple of sharp edges for stress concentration and failure points in the machining, but you want the rose joint to fail, not the rod. Casting marks at the shell/sphere junction. I mean WTF is with that piece of absolute crap finishing???? An ideal location for grit to deposit creating an environment for accelerated wear. Yes they are smooth, now, but will last barly 3 months so will not make it onto the car. Emergency spares at best.

Glad I got these real cheap!!

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

well, i guess, that demonstrates you get what you pay for.

Quality brands of those style suspension components are much better.

Also as far as replacement rod end's go. you can pay more for teflon ones etc. probably will last longer and be stronger... but yeah, u pay alot more for them than standard ones.

I guess, having a castor rod break on you is much less dangerous than an upper camber arm.

-geoff that tension rod looks shocking. the width of the shell is half the width of the bolt...

I'll post pics of the replacement I got from BIS.

edit. here are pics (different from previous pics, the bearing i had there was wrong thread...)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/merli...ax-replace4.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y19/merli...ax-replace3.jpg

I have no idea how quality compares, but it's looks heaps better than the ones you posted there...

the castor rods i used, are a cheap brand, but i guess some "cheap" brands are worse than others... The bearing i posted pics of in prevous page, was from the actual supplier of those tension rods, but he sent me a right-handed thread, so couldn't use it.

also a question, the ones I have have a little nipple on them, i think this is for re-lubricating them??? is it a good idea to add more oil/grease to them regularly?

Edited October 26, 2005 by MerlinTheHapyPig

[GTRgeoff]

Yeah it's only the rose joint and $50 is pretty cheap. This is the quality of a lot of the dodge product on the market that guys are buying for $200 at a bargain price, and later they will be sorry.

[Sydneykid]

A quick update, due to the problems of heavy wear associated with open sperical bearings in a road environment (ie; water, dust, mud etc) a couple of manufacturers are currently testing sealed spherical bearings. They are also attempting to get them approved for road use.

More news as soon as the testing is completed.

cheers

[Sydneykid]

One importer submitted product which failed testing and consequently has not gained approval for road use. As soon as I become aware of an approved supplier I will post it up. If you find one please let me know.

cheers

[Greg]

SK, thanks for the informative thread. The sealed bearings sound promising. I have castor rods with spherical bearings and I have neglected them. I recently greased them and they are feeling much better. I'll be sure to keep a close eye on them and the surround welds in the future.

I have the KTS rods from UAS - do they look ok in terms of strength? here is a pic: http://nismo.com.au/pricelists/kts/ktscastorrod.jpg

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I'm buying spherical bearing suspension components for my car, as it will be primarily used for motorsport activities. What is the best way to maintain the spherical bearings ? Can they be greased ? Is there and effective way to shield them from dirt and sand etc ?

Cheers

Paul

[Sydneykid]

I'm buying spherical bearing suspension components for my car, as it will be primarily used for motorsport activities. What is the best way to maintain the spherical bearings ? Can they be greased ? Is there and effective way to shield them from dirt and sand etc ?

Cheers

Paul

Hi Paul, the better brands come with rubber/plastic cups that seal around the through bolt onto the non moving part of the spherical. Plus they have grease nipples. So you can do a grease change without removing them.

cheers

[dontfeelcold]

Just dragging a thread out.

I noticed in my Dad's mini that the suspenion arms use roller bearings in the pivot points and the Yamaha R1 rear swing arm I modified today uses them aswell.

What are the Pro's and Con's of using roller bearings in suspension pivot points??

Edited August 1, 2006 by dontfeelcold

[hrd-hr30]

Just dragging a thread out.

I noticed in my Dad's mini that the suspenion arms use roller bearings in the pivot points and the Yamaha R1 rear swing arm I modified today uses them aswell.

What are the Pro's and Con's of using roller bearings in suspension pivot points??

roller bearings only allow movement in one axis. most suspension systems move in more than one axis, so you will get binding problems - something will break. motorbike swing arms only move in one axis so that's OK, but the mini ia a surprise

[Beer Baron]

what about front upper arms in a 32 GTR? I have a set of arms here that use roller bearings. they do twist in the middle which is nice as with lots of castor the arm would be being pulled forward.

[dontfeelcold]

Is the suspension twisting due to the forces being applied to the suspension arms? or is it they way it was meant to work?

I thought that suspension that used a double wishbone setup would not want to be twisting.

So is there anything wrong with using rollerbearings in suspension that move in one plane? Are they better? The mini had them in the inner pivot point of the upper arm.

A few Pro's I can think of.

The arms can be tightned up to the roller bearing inner race when the suspension is at full droop.

They can be mounted either in rubber/polyurethane or mounted straight into the arm.

When mounted straight into the arm they should be quite solid. depending of the condition of the bearing.

Con's (can't think of too many)

Possile excessive wear, but if they are used in street cars they musn't be that bad? I will have to check the ones on the mini.

A hard hit might brea them?

[Sydneykid]

Con's (can't think of too many)

Cons, a quick list;

1. They don’t absorb impact like a bush, so you get increased NVH (noise, vibration and harshness).

2. They don’t absorb impacts like a bush, so you get a higher propensity for cracking around the joint.

3. If they aren’t water proof, they will corrode.

4. If they aren’t greaseable they will wear out quickly.

5. They are expensive to replace, in comparison bushes are cheap.

6. In themselves, they are not adjustable ie; they require other means of adjustment.

7. They have no deformation capability, so any slight misalignment will result in premature wear eg; hit a gutter slightly, tweaking the wheel alignment

8. They are heavier therefore increasing the unsprung weight if used in the outer joints.

With a bit more thought there are probably a few more

cheers

[Beer Baron]

do'h! that doesn't sound very promising. The ones I have are the dog bone shape upper arms. I'm keen to give them ago anyway. will be sure to post up how they work out.

[Sydneykid]

do'h! that doesn't sound very promising. The ones I have are the dog bone shape upper arms. I'm keen to give them ago anyway. will be sure to post up how they work out.

I removed a set from a very clunky GTR last week. They were cracked due to impact and also seized due to water ingress and corrosion. I will have some pictures shortly to post up.

When fitting them make sure you put them in the right way around. Otherwise you will end up with massive caster and no camber adjustment. Yes I have seen it done, its easy.

cheers

[Beer Baron]

yes, I'll double check that! thanks for the heads up Gary.

I wonder if you could remove the ball bearings and replace with regular bushes/sleeves? could be an option.

[dontfeelcold]

didn't think they would like much load.

thanks for that.

[J_Red33]

Interesting read this. I actually went to a suspention guy just over a week ago & he reckoned that rose joints wouldn't be too harsh for the road. Reading comments in here though seems to contradict that.

1 other thing he did say too was that the whiteline adjustable bushes rely on the pressure of the bolt head at the end of the tube to hold it in place & he reckoned they were prone to slipping.

I don't know if this is true or not so a few comments & maybe pictures would be appreciated if anyone is willing to prove this wrong/right.

[Duncan]

1 other thing he did say too was that the whiteline adjustable bushes rely on the pressure of the bolt head at the end of the tube to hold it in place & he reckoned they were prone to slipping.

Thats only true if there is no lock nut on the end, just add another nut hard against the first one and it would not slip

[J_Red33]

Yes a locknut would surely help.

Main reason I ask this is that I've also seen other bushes that have a thread through the tube. When you tighten the bolt up, it places pressure on the thread to help lock it in place.

Not sure if there are any disadvantages with this set up however......