M35 - Hypergear Turbo, Info, Reviews, Comparisons, Results

[Commsman]

Thanks for the input guys. There are two type of cores listed in this thread. The one with the billet wheel is the SS1PU core, and the other is the ATR43G2 core. Both cores has the exact same turbine setup.

The SS1PU billet core is on the larger side and has produce a maximum of 282rwkws on my test car. Since it has a more efficient compressor wheel it is capable of producing greater flow, that could possibly be the cause for the boost creep using the OEM waste gate setup. This is the first SS1PU core that went into the M35 OEM housings, I will take note to replace the OEM waste gate assembly when it is used again.

The ATR43G2 core is on the smaller side and that was capable of making a maximum of 260rwkws on my test car. The M35 that I've road tested it on did not show signs of spiking, how ever the situation might change on a dyno setup.

A larger 36mm waste gate assembly using a 32mm internal gate will be fitted for all further M35 OEM turbo high flows services.

Thanks for the info Stao. I think a bigger wastegate would be handy for those of us who are using the OEM ECU & 98 fuel.

So, is mine the ATR43G2 then?

Cheers, Leon.

[scotty nm35]

Thanks for the input guys. There are two type of cores listed in this thread. The one with the billet wheel is the SS1PU core, and the other is the ATR43G2 core. Both cores has the exact same turbine setup.

The SS1PU billet core is on the larger side and has produce a maximum of 282rwkws on my test car. Since it has a more efficient compressor wheel it is capable of producing greater flow, that could possibly be the cause for the boost creep using the OEM waste gate setup. This is the first SS1PU core that went into the M35 OEM housings, I will take note to replace the OEM waste gate assembly when it is used again.

The ATR43G2 core is on the smaller side and that was capable of making a maximum of 260rwkws on my test car. The M35 that I've road tested it on did not show signs of spiking.

A larger 36mm waste gate assembly using a 32mm internal gate will be fitted for all further M35 OEM turbo high flows services.

I think there is still more in skyrkt's setup, how high would you be game to take one of these billet wheels?

Does that mean it will cost more Stao?

[Ross]

What do these high flows cost to get done?

All these fantastic numbers you guys are achieving has got me interested.

[hypergear]

The billet SS1PU core made 282rwkws on my Rb25det manual, E85 should bring up another 40kws. But I'm not sure how much power the Auto box and AWD would lose. So maybe 320rwkws?

Sorry Scott I didn't fully understand the last bit. You mean you are welling to try a larger billet wheel? I can make that turbo a lot bigger then what it is.

The standard version is $880 and the billet version is $200 more. Unless the car's going to be installed with supporting mods and be tuned for maximum power there isn't much of a need for the billet core.

[scotty nm35]

Just wondering if opening the wastegate will bump the cost up, obviously not as you kept the same price above.

Also, what boost will your thrust washers handle?

[hypergear]

not planing to increase cost for the wastegate assembly. I've run that on 24psi most of time and there are no wear also did couple of 28psi runs. The thrust plate and collar are custom made with bigger bore.

[sky^rkt]

im tempted to up the boost on mine but im juust worried about it spiking will see how i go when i run it at calder when i come back

[PN-Mad]

The ecu wont have a set airflow cut, I would bet its load or duty cycle dependent. Time for an Emanage?

I have a different opinion on this based on experience from my car and tuning, but I'm not going to whore up the hypergear thread.

[Commsman]

I have a different opinion on this based on experience from my car and tuning, but I'm not going to whore up the hypergear thread.

I'm keen to hear all suggestions. Maybe you can start "a funny thing happened whilst tuning my car" thread?

[PN-Mad]

Put it this way- of those 3 things, 2 I have plenty of, One I'm near the limit. ECU retards timing to a point no-where near the set table.

I'm working on a solution.

[iamhe77]

So get the damn AFM already Alex

Since this is the M35 Hypergear thread, I figure I should put up a couple of pics of the first M35 turbo that Stao did... a couple of years ago now.

Wasn't in my car but I was told by the owner that it behaved like the standard turbo but didn't run out of puff. No dyno sheet.

[Jetwreck]

Looks about the same......exhaust side definately does.

[PN-Mad]

Except the one Cam posted has an extra exhaust blade....

[Commsman]

So, on another note (pun intended), I have noticed the exhaust is noticably quieter now. I wasn't sure if i was hearing things (or not) so I asked my wife to have a listen (she is never wrong about these things) & confirms that it is indeed the case.

Over the last 12 months or more the Nur Touring exhaust (chosen because it is quieter than most others) has gradually gotten louder and was a bit too "wop wop wop" for my mature tastes, lol. In fact I was seriously considering my options on swapping it out or changing the resonator etc.

Well, I'm ecstatic to announce that isn't an issue anymore & this becomes a nice unexpected positive for the swap.

[Commsman]

More news.

Due to not wanting to drive too much in the rain (I have a split CV boot atm) my only tests drives have been very short. I drove slowly around my 'test circuit' till the engine was up to temp, gave it a squirt or two, had cut out problem & drove home. Repeated next day, same issue. I could use about 40-50% throttle, or up to 80% if I waited till higher in the rev range to feed it on. More than that & the ECU would put a stop to it.

To recap, AFR's are good, AFM voltage doesn't get as high as with previous turbo & I'm running on wastegate pressure (up to 15psi). With a bit more monitoring I found boost doesn't appear to be spiking like I previously suspected. It must be the timing then....

I plugged in my UpRev cable to reduce the ignition timing a few degrees & find that I can't make any changes unless the engine is up to operating temp - I think it says between 80 & 95 degrees - that got me thinking; maybe the problem is temperature related.

We all know our ECU's are complex beasts & many have agreed that everything seems inter-related. So I considered the circumstances of my previous test drives & know the gearbox wouldn't have been up to full temperature (coldish nights & trans cooler). Given that some of the ECU inputs are now more extreme, the gearbox temp might be the deciding factor.

Today the missus took the car to town & I waited till it came back all warmed up. The test drive revealed no cut out on full throttle at any point. Win!

Of course I need to prove this is still the case even on a cold night, but I'm quietly confident it will be ok. Always have ignition timing change to fall back on I suppose....

[Commsman]

More reviews

I tried a few real world driving situations (pulling out onto highway, overtaking from typical speeds) & the new turbo isn't too bad -phew.

Yes, there is more lag from standstill. My wife confirmed this when she got home today (she is never wrong about these things, lol). And on the road there is more of a need to drop back a couple of gears in preparation for overtaking. I should point out that my previous setup was almost instant boost (vastly changed from the 'elastic band' feeling of the stock setup when I first got it) so the lag that I've got now seems more noticeable. Had I gone from totally stock to this, I'd be over the moon.

I think after a lot more driving (where I can learn how to get the best out of it) & a bit of fine tuning (haven't played with the boost delivery yet) I reckon it could be a pretty decent combination. It certainly has it's good points.

I tried a stall up launch that was a bit of a fail. Held it flat & it wouldn't rev past ~2200 & when let go it just drove off pretty normally (no wheelspin) until it came on boost & then went quite good from there. It accelerates pretty hard in a constant surge all the way to redline (6500 with the stock ECU) with no noticeable easing off like the old one.

I then checked my 'fun switch' & realised if was off & I was only getting 30% throttle. Doh!

Launched again to the familiar squeal of rear tyres. Yeah, now we're starting to get there . This is one thing that the new Hypergear turbo was always going to do better than the factory one. Certainly more of a 'drag' spec.

More reviews as they come to hand.

I'm keen to report on economy in coming weeks as I think there could be some good results to be seen due to a) being off boost more often around town & b) the lower restriction - evidenced by my changed idle speed & exhaust note.

[hypergear]

Thats some Very valuable feed backs. I'm not sure how hard it is to get to the actuator, I normally insert a 2mm washer under it so it can preload the factory actuator a little bit as it is very soft to pull when it has no load. Try that it should make some differences in response, Also try a EBC if you can get one as that would stop the waste gate from opening early.

[Commsman]

Thanks Stao

I did put a washer under each bolt when the actuator was installed. They were more like 1.5mm thick, but it was tight getting the other end on so I think they are doing the job.

The actuator also has an external spring (one of Scotty's mods) that keeps the wastegate shut till around 15psi. I am yet to log a trace of the boost, but just by looking at the gauge it appears to be fairly consistant at around 15psi.

I do have an EBC, but it is set to let all boost thru to the actuator atm (just sorting the cut-out issue). I will now start to spend time tweaking the EBC so it cuts off all boost to the wastegate to help it ramp up as quickly as possible, & then try to keep the boost as close to the target pressure as I can.

I'll report back when I've got more data.

[WAGON_BOY]

Thanks for the input guys. There are two type of cores listed in this thread. The one with the billet wheel is the SS1PU core, and the other is the ATR43G2 core. Both cores has the exact same turbine setup.

The SS1PU billet core is on the larger side and has produce a maximum of 282rwkws on my test car. Since it has a more efficient compressor wheel it is capable of producing greater flow, that could possibly be the cause for the boost creep using the OEM waste gate setup. This is the first SS1PU core that went into the M35 OEM housings, I will take note to replace the OEM waste gate assembly when it is used again.

The ATR43G2 core is on the smaller side and that was capable of making a maximum of 260rwkws on my test car. The M35 that I've road tested it on did not show signs of spiking.

A larger 36mm waste gate assembly using a 32mm internal gate will be fitted for all further M35 OEM turbo high flows services.

what is the next size up that you can build, say 500hp at the crank or 315ish kw at the wheels ???

and would it be possible to keep the lag at an acceptiable level like the SS1PU core ???

[andy65b]

Today the missus took the car to town & I waited till it came back all warmed up. The test drive revealed no cut out on full throttle at any point. Win!

Of course I need to prove this is still the case even on a cold night, but I'm quietly confident it will be ok. Always have ignition timing change to fall back on I suppose....

Leon,

You should look at installing a thermo switch between the transmission and the cooler. It only allows the fluid to go to the trans cooler when the fluid is up to temp. Made the car much nicer to drive in the morning.

Check with Craig about getting one.

Cheers

Andy