paulr33

watch and MONITOR AIRFLOW or use SENSOR SW CHECK to look for any wacko values or out of range sensors (will go black highlight). I suspect airflow meter is loosing signal or going out of scale, possibly water in the intake. do you have a pod? stock airbox?

thanks to all of those who attended, we covered the following topics; Drift for Dummies Skyline Nationals State of Origin - NSW Track Week Event Midnight Cruise review Detailing Day review Photoshop Tutorial Another up and coming regular event we are looking into is a monthly Pizza night at various pizza places in melbourne with grading for each place. At the end of the year we will run a tally of the scores to find the best pizza place in melbourne, more details to come soon.

if you want to see the skidpan in full action check out our event this saturday at deca, drift for dummies. Event: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=124160 Cruise up thread: http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=126507

i agree it should be rpm based, more useful to get rpm from speed assuming 1:1 diff ratio then devide speed by 28 * 1000

well i have nothing further to add. like most internet chat and communication it is open to interpretation. i suspect if we had this conversation from scratch a local pub the outcome would have been different

id be interested to know how youve tested this? my car runs a pod in the engine bay unshielded. i made up a poor mans cold air intake pipe (removed the pod) to run from the afm out through the stock fmic hole downards for my last attempts at heathcote. the result was sucking in much cooler ambient air from behind the front bar. just doign warm up laps on the track (track was wet) i could feel better response and more beef in the car as it wasnt sucking in hot air. i can feel it sucking in hot air, it bogs the response and doesnt perform as well when on full load, with given air "flowing" into the pod area. i simply believe sucking hot air in from engine bay is bad. i had a poor mans heat sheild which had lots of gaps and i need to really fix it properly. the stock airbox came out as the fmic piping blocked its path

to summarize; 1) What does the stock R33 GTS-T get at the wheels (no mods) depends on dyno settings + if it in fact is true stock. there could be mods the owner doesnt know about my stock run i had a larger muffler, maybe that added more power. the happy medium seems to be somewhere between 120 and 140 2) A stock ECU cannot make it over 150rwks a stock ecu can. a stock ecu can make 300rwkw. that doesnt mean its good or going to great to drive. stock ecu is not limited to power. if you can work around the excess airflow, it will make as much power as airflow you dial in. its not like it will turn off the engine if it makes 320rwkw. it will just keep going about its business, but it will certianly be much crapper compared to a properly tuned ecu, or even a remap. you cant change injectors, airflow meters and alter the cold start, warm start etc so you would be limited by hiflow injectors and some form oh hiflow hack afm, one that could flow more but run on the same voltage scale. The maybe 3) - How much extra power do you get from after market ECU (peak has only been discussed i guess, but obviously the whole shape of the curve would be nice to compare like you said) changing to a different ecu the power gain would be zero. changing to a different ecu and having it tuned would be "reasonable" power gains. but if you have say 180rwkw on stock ecu and then decide ok time for powerfc, and make the same peak power, does that mean youve wasted your money? of course not as we all know airflow makes power, to get more power you need more air. but you can certainly tune the pants off to get superior response and economy and some additional features in an aftermarket ecu

so do you feel his 125kw run is wrong? do you feel its right? i certainly feel its correct, i paulr33 believe jono took his car to a dyno in a factory configuration and plonked it on a dyno and it came out with max reading of 125rwkw. this doesn't mean all factory configurations will make that level of power. i also believe i took my car r33 plonked it on a dyno and came out with 141rwkw. it doesnt mean all r33's will make that either. its just a given power level and nothing more. what is certainly likely is that jono's run had different settings to mine. different air temp, intake temp, ramp rate, tyre pressure, different shootout mode (if it was infact in shootout mode) and so on. many many many factors, we could go on for hours, we also saw an r33 near stock make 187rwkw (wrong gear). again if the parameters had been entered correctly i think it would have corrected it to a 1:1 diff ratio readout instead of the higher gear ratio, which skewed the results. someone said if the parameters were spot on, it wouldnt have mattered (which sounds acceptable) but the point is, it doesnt matter. it only matters if you compare xyz run to xyz run on the same dyno, on the same settings, ie: jono makes a change and then goes to the same place and same settings, then its useful, i dont think he's been to the same place each time he has made changes, heck i havent either. most of us dont i think. not having a stab at you, just it was easy to clear up with your direct question

here is a drill down (that i know of) for the dyno dynamics settings at the bottom of each run. BP - pressure RH - uknown AT - air temp IT - intake temp RR - ramp rate TN - unknown This pic is taken from one of my runs and you can see the AT and IT are almost identical. my car has a pod in the engine bay which sucks in hot air. so its likely that the IT is wrong as if its sucking in hot engine bay air, then it wont be 17deg. 50deg odd sounds about right. so because of this omission or error, it guess you could made less power compared to an identical run, but with the intake sensor in the right spot.

you are correct, in questioning how they can read differently. they have a bunch of sensors that obtain atmospheric conditions and car conditions (or settings) to give a power at given wheel speed. these include things like; ambient air temp air intake temp ramp rate air pressure humidity and so on. if its locked in shootout mode most of these can't be altered however it still has room for error. there is big document on the shootout mode procedure and how it needs to be done. a simply ommision such as not using the air intake sensor properly can affect the result. ie: having a hot pod sucking in hot air but placing the air temp sensor on the dyno pc printout stand. the car will make less power as its sucking in hot air but the dyno thinks its 18deg in the air intake so it corrects based on that. likewise if you were to put the air intake sensor near the pod (not attached to it) and did the run its likely to make more power than perviously as all of a sudden in ambient temp is say 22deg and then the intake temp is 55deg (sounds about right) it will go ok it makes xyz power, but because its sucking in mega hot air, it really makes xyz + 10 power. shootout mode corrects to an even playing field so that someone in syndey on a hot day that does a power run and someone in tasmania in winter that gets a power run, they are both in comparison even playing ie. ie: it lets say pretends the airtemp for intake is 20 and ambient is say 25 for both dyno runs. it will increase the sydney run as it was in hotter air, whereas it will drop the tasmania run as it was in colder air. maths certainly dont lie, but human intervention with the systems will affect it. there are other manual corrections you can apply such as ramp rate adjustment (pull the car tighter to the rollers, this can affect boost build rates). selecting different shootout modes for the wrong car, ie choosing SHOOT8 for a 6 cylinder, choosing SHOOT4 for a v6 turbo and so on, these have inbuilt base line corrections and values. im yet to this day see any workshop use the airtemp sensor correctly and place it in the air intake or near the air intake inlet and have the bonnet closed in melbourne. again im pretty sure thats the right way to do it (anyone care to correct?)

and again if the still have the same power curve, which i highly doubt unless its remapped its still the standard ecu. it has the speed cut, excess airflow protection, knock pickup drops timing and richens up, you dont get any readout on the various sensors, you cant control 02 feedback, you cant get notificaiton of knocking, airflow and injector limits, you cant monitor any of the values (without console cable). so i still fail to see why u would want to stick with the stock ecu, but if you want to, then do that. i can only see benefits changing away from the stock ecu (to a suitable one). right and with a bucket load of suspension work and good weathe conditions i could probably manage similar times on good radials at similar mph. maybe he has weight reduction, maybe he has different rubber, maybe it was warmer, maybe it was colder. there's a billion maybe's. the point is, its a much worse basis for comparison than dyno runs as theres a stackload more factors, including the driver.

ill see what i can do, i think i can guess my way through it

top work bass but i think it should be plotted into mysql with a php site so it can be customised and comparison at the click of a button. that excel sheet will suck when 5 other people add their results. like the v8 one you found, that was tops. we need that

sorry i think im confused, what are we actually debating? its not clear

yu wont loose your tune if you unplug but the powerfc, but there is little point. ive posted it up a few times having xyz brand ecu vs stock ecu proves nothing. they will both make power. having xyz brand ecu is only as good as the tune thats on it. so what if the stock ecu makes 180rwkw in one peak spot. so what if the xyz brand makes 185rwkw in the same peak spot. its simply max power in any one spot and that is not realy helpful. it wont guage how fast a car is on the street. too many are caught up with max power. most people when they get their car back talk about how much it made, no one mentions average power. no one talks about the power curve or response. most (even i used to) just say it made xyz rwkw and thats all thats important various comparisons across various dynos is somewhat useful but if its not locked in shootout mode then there can be any number of variances in the result. agian the operator just does what he feels is right (a lot do) and dont follow the guidlines again the power level is altered. simply having the bonnet open or closed can greatly affect the power output. take the values as a useful back to back comparison for the same car each time or like on a dyno day but comparing across dynos in states etc probably isnt that useful. like compare drag 1/4 miles. weather, temperature, track temp, wind speed and so on all affect the results. heck look my my recent heathcote results 105mph @ 13.75. looking at wsid average run of the mills runs 105 is 13 flat so the results do get skewed and affected by environment. the only time i would see dyno compares useful (as in 100% useful) if i could guarantee the shootout mode procedures were followed at workshop xyz for car abc and my mate goes to workshop 123 with his car which is qwe and his tuner follows the procedure spot on as well. only then i would say its an even playing field and the results are as dyno dynamics intended them to be, useful for comparison.

How hard did you search? I found almost everything within 5 minutes http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=109249 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=114907 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=109587 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=106698 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=91481 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=90940 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=89690 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=76924 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=49826 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=76735 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=74396 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=69158 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=65658 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=65548 http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...showtopic=63367

as per the details, its the shell servo, in donnybrook not mcmobil in campbellfield. its easier as the shell is reachable for people that jump off the ring rd relay road. otherwise to get to the mcmobile they have to go backwards

4 x 120gb in raid5 335gb usable space with a dual amd and 1gb ddr

for convoy please see -> http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=126507

Hi All, It's time for SAU VIC's first Drift for Dummies Day. This will be held at the lovely DECA facility in Shepparton VIC. There will be our usual convoy cruises for both the Friday night crew and early Saturday morning. Of course you can travel in your own time accordingly but it is much easier in a group, and more fun. Previously we were meeting at McMobil on the Hume Hwy but now that the bypass is open it may be more convinient for others so we are all meeting there. Meeting point address Shell Roadhouse Hume Hwy Donnybrook VIC 3064 Melway 365 C5 (For Melways 1998 to 2002) there is no map drill down for this location, look at PAGE 8 (not map 8) in the top right corner, you'll see Donnybrook RD / HUME Fwy intersection, the shell servo is there!!!! DECA Address 145 Wanganui Rd Shepparton There will be two official convoy's heading up to Drift for Dummies (at DECA) Friday 21st July - Night convoy Meet at Shell Service Station, Hume Hwy, Donnybrook - Depart 8:30pm. Jamezilla to lead the Convoy. Saturday 22nd July - Morning convoy Meet at Shell Service Station, Hume Hwy, Donnybrook - Depart 5:30am. Paulr33 to lead the Convoy. Some important notes; 1. Please bring CB radio's to assist in communication during the convoy 2. This is open to non members if you wish to come up and spectate 3. We have a wide range of cars running on the day from full race spec cars to daily streeters 4. BBQ will be provided for specators and competitors with cheap food 5. Just a reminder that officials MUST be there (at DECA) no later than 8.15am on Saturday morning 6. Please drive in an orderely manner, no drifting on the way up, no hero behaviour Directions from Shell Service Station - Hume Hwy Start at HUME HWY, DONNYBROOK - 7.64 km 9 Mins Continue along HUME HWY, DONNYBROOK - 15.97 km 18 Mins Continue along HUME HWY, MELBOURNE REGIONAL DISTRICTS - 12.78 km 10 Mins Continue along HUME FWY, HEATHCOTE JUNCTION - 47.35 km 37 Mins Continue along RAMP > GOULBURN VALLEY HWY, MANGALORE - 79.51 km 1 Hr 5 Mins Continue along WYNDHAM ST, SHEPPARTON - 2.22 km 2 Mins Continue along NUMURKAH RD, SHEPPARTON - 1.01 km 1 Min Turn right at GOULBURN VALLEY HWY, SHEPPARTON - 145 m 1 Min Turn left at WANGANUI RD, SHEPPARTON - 3.03 km 8 Mins Finish WANGANUI RD, SHEPPARTON - 169.67 km 2 Hrs 35 Mins Event Schedule Info TBA Event Accomodation http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=125227 Event Official Applications (booked out) http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...howtopic=124160 Any questions/concerns/comments please post them here. A map of the DECA facility in Shepparton is attached for your reference.

it depends where you put them in the centre console i think would be useless as you cant easily see them while driving. i would go for, if you must have guages exhaust temp get a wideband sensor and tune tune tune tune the pants off it

jono is in cairns with penis fuel on tap you lot are in nsw and vic with good fuel on tap and normal ambient temps

im not gonna bother, mods will probably delete it all anyway

well this conversation has turned into lets prove so and so right or wrong. like a lot of our conversations. the mafia is a respected member and has certainly the technical knowledge regarding his posts. there are many factors that will give a car its power output. temperature, dyno settings, environment, where various sensors are placed, is the bonnett up, whats the ramp rate and so on. it could be his first dyno run had the bonnet down and his final tune run had the bonnet up. this would induce cooler air temps into the air intake and so on. we could go on for ages about why and what not's but the point is, that it does not matter. we are arguging for the sake of it, to prove who has the biggest penis in the sandpit. we are too cuaght up in dismissing each others power figures that weve skewed onto an alternate topic, instead of the one this thread was about, which is power increases. but rest aside, jono has an idea i can assure you.

leak in the intercooler piping somewhere. use soapy water and look for bubbles