meshmesh

Andrew... have you spoken to Gerald about the pump?? he got mine for me around $380~

Theory.... Japanese Colours Skyline History Round lights A in the centre with horns - Devilish but not Evil, fear, intimedation Font Style... again devilish but tried to make it visually japanese. ©2004 meshmesh

Tony, It seems so far [touch wood] since replacing the battery this avo, she's kicking over better than ever. We removed the battery and it was a pissy 280cc thing suited for suzuki's and civic. We replaced it with a 450cc Calcium Maintenance free $100, and alls good so far. Yep same thing, wants to start just reluctant to kick over, that's why we thought it could be fuel pump issue. So far so good with the new battery, maybe you should check your battery also.

f**k... Emre, your spot on, that's what I've been trying to say for the power target I was trying to achieve it wasn't worth it for such little gain. Thanks.

Merli, I'm not sure who's misunderstanding what here?? :dunno: What I mean in reply to dave's question that I am unaware of any disadvantages of installing dumps... and if anything only advantages. You'll also see I replied in an earlier post But the dyno tells the story... as it stands so far the boys have been correct about the dumps. I'm not making this gospel by any means, I'm only comparing to other GTR Dyno results with similar mods to mine. The same as others will possibly refer to this thread. I also tried to supply as much info as possible "unlike jezzzzr" [no offence mate], that's why I posted both dyno read outs, that show 2 different (before & after tunes in the) before_2530.jpg & the new mods in the after_2530.jpg. If it helps I can also post up the dyno sheets, which I felt weren't that important as they show the power curve & boost level which I felt wasn't as important as the AF ratio's.

benjiman74, Bens was done in shootout mode. the dyno I attached doesn't show it. The other dyno sheet I have does. You should be able to find it in my original thread some time ago when I got it done. dave, Dunno...?? as far as I know there aren't any disadvantages. But considering I'm running stock dumps, It seems the boys from at ICE were correct.

Ferni, ICE have done all the work to my car from day one. The car was tuned on Racepace dyno in the Before Graph, that's all. 3000rpm?? you sure! Now you're probably not feeling the fall off, but once you feel the difference between both set-ups you'll understand what I'm talking about. sidewaymambo, Goes without saying.

Hi Busty... No offence taken, Initially that was my thinking. But it's not the case once you drive the car. Something that sticks in my head is what sydneykid said and that was "best average power". Until you drive the thing, you wont fully appreciate the performance. As a comparison markr34gtr got 305kwRW on 1.3bar, with the exact mods as me, but he also had HKS IC & Dumps, lightened flywheel... and he ran a high 11pass. Considering the theory about dumps & open air pod filters, I opted against going with these, a left the stock dumps & fitted back the original cold air box.... and still managed the same if not more power as those with them installed. So I'm pretty happy

Not me... I'll probably put something like.. Her Kunt Smells Horiental Kock Suckers

Here are some of my ideas.... what HKS stands for. Harry Konnick Senior Harry Kuel Special Please use [japanese accent] for those listed below; Hooooo Kar Sofaaaast Horiental Karate Supercar

On the advice of the boys at ICE, they said not to do it. I had some ordered but cancelled them. In comparison to other GTR's with similar mods, I think they were correct. However... I do think it would help reduce lag. I'll wait & see. Yes you "really" can feel the extra 500~rpm. But I guess I have to change my driving style to suit. The cam gears is an option, again the car has to go back so we might do some alterations. Again, went down this path before the work was done, and the boys raised some good points. Saying, yes they'll make a difference, but unless I'm doing internals, no to bother as I'll just be putting more stress on the motor.

See attached dyno results below.

Hi Guys, Well finally got my install done, and I attached the Before & After Dyno Results. Here's what I had in the Before Result which I got 270kwRW @ 15psi (approx 1.0 - 1.1 Bar) - Stock Motor & Intercooler - Power FC - Cam Gears - HKS Pods - Standard Dumps, 2.5" into 3" downpipe, stock cat, 3.5" cat back - Bleed Valve Here's what I now have in the After Result, which I got 321kwRW @ 20psi boost (approx 1.3-1.4 Bar) - Stock Motor & Intercooler - Power FC - Cam Gears - Standard Air Box with K&N Filter - Z32 AFM's - Standard Dumps, 2.5" into 3" downpipe, stock cat, 3.5" cat back - HKS EVC 4 Boost Controller - HKS GT2530's with HKS 1bar Actuators - SARD 700cc injectors - Bosch 044 Fuel Pump - Catch Can **We think the cooler might be an AVO bar & plate around 70mm.. not sue on this Some things I've noticed, car is a little laggier than stock, which was expected. Boost hits you around 4500-5000rpm, compared to 4000~. The car really does Pull hard all the way to 8000rpm, it feels like it could pull to 10,000rpm. Now I get scared by the power & not just my passangers. It's a little hard to describe the actual power increase, as I dont think the extra "peak power" of 50kw, justifies the true difference. I can only describe it as, before with the original turbos the car was very fast an pulled hard from 4000-7000~, but lacked the brutal power of force when compared to the after set up. It's sort of like comparing the zippy-ness of a WRX, to a brutal GTR. The WRX is zippy a quick, but the GTR is brutal & has the legs to keep on going. Since picking it up yesterday, I've been thinking about Merli's decision to go with the GT-SS HKS Turbos. It would be interesting to see, as I probably think he's on the right track for TRUE Street driving power and not so much dyno/drag queen numbers. Previously, I would sit on 100-105kph in 4th and boot it, the car would launch off for overtaking. Now with the new set-up forget it, I have to hit 120kph before you feel any real launch. So now I have to put it in 3rd, but... and I say BUT... before you know the tacho is nearing 180kph. Problem Fixed.. it's seems the SARD 700cc Injectors are "so called" lazy on start up, the battery upgrade to a 450cc helped, but a little tweaking on the dyno fixed our start up issues. > Just put some Bridgestones SO3 on, they feel fantastic > waiting for my OS Giken Twin Plate Clutch, currently have a heavy duty, that holds the power OK but useless if trying to take off.

Iwells... you beat me to it. I was going to suggest the same thread. We raised a similar debate about this issue & SydneyKid raised some very informative points. Well worth the long read.

what size are they?

NWA had a song years ago.. I think it was called "f**k THE POLICE" ironic isn't it ! I used to have a some respect for the cops, I remember they'd come to our schools and give us the "we are an extension of your community, to serve & protect you. We are not the enemy" yeah right! I'd prefer to be pulled over by Osama Bin Laden, at least he has a "poor" excuse for pulling me over. Not like the cops, "routine check bullshit." Peasant, Brax Slave mofo's, even if one was on fire I wouldn't bother p!ssing on them to put em out. Ooooh I could go on and on and on... better stop there. I think I need a bottle of something to calm me down now.

Get the Hand Controller aswell.

Car still in surgery at ICE, so I couldn't come... Was contemplating showing up but figured it would have been hard keeping up with you all by foot.

www.syndicatemotorsports.org/insurance.html www.dawes.com.au/ www.uniquecar.com.au/ HBF shannons insurance (08) 9388 8733 Shannons (02) 9958 7666 www.shannons.com.au James Dear & Assoc. (02) 9888 5683 ALL-STATE insurance (07) 3205 3311 Insurance Australia Broking (07) 3397 5511 Vigil 13 14 30 www.vigilins.com.au Street Tech Elders Insurance 1800 654 545 www.elders.com.au Young and Cool (02) 9601 1600 www.youngandcool.com Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Toomeys (03) 9876 5950 Suncorp Metway 13 11 55 Combined Acceptance (02) 9633 5800 RACQ 13 19 05 www.racq.com.au Torque Underwriting 1300 369 769 Kenyon (03) 9696 1219 www.kenyon.com.au Just Cars 13 13 26 www.justcarinsurance.com.au QMDN 1800 644 383 Response Insurance Companies Just Cars Subsidiary of AAMI 13 13 26 AAMI 13 22 44 Fortron Insurance Agency 1800 444 123 Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Insurance Australia Brokers QLD = (07) 3236 3300 NSW = (02) 6551 3220 Vigil 13 14 30 www.vigilins.com.au Ansvar (SA) (08) 8338 1900 RACQ 13 19 05 www.racq.com.au Young and Cool (02) 9601 1600 www.youngandcool.com QMDN 1800 644 383 Unique Car Insurance (03) 9898 9400 Elders Insurance 1800 654 545 www.elders.com.au Shannons (02) 9958 7666 www.shannons.com.au Torque Underwriting 1300 369 769 ALL-STATE insurance (07) 3205 3311 Suncorp Metway 13 11 55 www.suncorpmetway.com.au Street Tech Insurance for Imported & Modified Vehicles 1800 150 320 Australian Finance Group 07 3394 1200 NRMA 13 21 32 Prestige Car Insurance 1800 004 121 DirecDial Insurance 13 19 29 www.direcdial.com.au FAI Insurance 13 10 00 Insurance My Way Australia www.insurancemyway.com.au eChoice www.echoice.com.au FutureNet www.insurenet.com.au Australian Insurance Search www.insurancesearch.com.au Insurance Brokers Insurance Brokers of SA (08) 8326 1011 Bendigo Insurance brokers (03) 5441 1066 Toomeys (03) 9876 5950 Young (02) 9601 1600 Dawes (02) 9144 6700 Combined Acceptance (02) 9633 5800 Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Kenyon (03) 9696 1219 www.kenyon.com.au Unique Car Underwriting 1800 651 014 Pyrah Tobin Brokers (02) 4285 9191 www.pyrahtobin.com.au Nsurance (03) 98470511

Found this list lying around on my PC... thought it may be of interest - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Insurance Companies Just Cars Subsidiary of AAMI 13 13 26 AAMI 13 22 44 Fortron Insurance Agency 1800 444 123 Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Insurance Australia Brokers QLD = (07) 3236 3300 NSW = (02) 6551 3220 Vigil 13 14 30 www.vigilins.com.au Ansvar (SA) (08) 8338 1900 RACQ 13 19 05 www.racq.com.au Young and Cool (02) 9601 1600 www.youngandcool.com QMDN 1800 644 383 Unique Car Insurance (03) 9898 9400 Elders Insurance 1800 654 545 www.elders.com.au Shannons (02) 9958 7666 www.shannons.com.au Torque Underwriting 1300 369 769 ALL-STATE insurance (07) 3205 3311 Suncorp Metway 13 11 55 www.suncorpmetway.com.au Street Tech Insurance for Imported & Modified Vehicles 1800 150 320 Australian Finance Group 07 3394 1200 NRMA 13 21 32 Prestige Car Insurance 1800 004 121 DirecDial Insurance 13 19 29 www.direcdial.com.au FAI Insurance 13 10 00 Insurance My Way Australia www.insurancemyway.com.au eChoice www.echoice.com.au FutureNet www.insurenet.com.au Australian Insurance Search www.insurancesearch.com.au www.syndicatemotorsports.org/insurance.html www.dawes.com.au/ www.uniquecar.com.au/ HBF shannons insurance (08) 9388 8733 Shannons (02) 9958 7666 www.shannons.com.au James Dear & Assoc. (02) 9888 5683 ALL-STATE insurance (07) 3205 3311 Insurance Australia Broking (07) 3397 5511 Vigil 13 14 30 www.vigilins.com.au Street Tech Elders Insurance 1800 654 545 www.elders.com.au Young and Cool (02) 9601 1600 www.youngandcool.com Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Toomeys (03) 9876 5950 Suncorp Metway 13 11 55 Combined Acceptance (02) 9633 5800 RACQ 13 19 05 www.racq.com.au Torque Underwriting 1300 369 769 Kenyon (03) 9696 1219 www.kenyon.com.au Just Cars 13 13 26 www.justcarinsurance.com.au QMDN 1800 644 383 Response Insurance Brokers Insurance Brokers of SA (08) 8326 1011 Bendigo Insurance brokers (03) 5441 1066 Toomeys (03) 9876 5950 Young (02) 9601 1600 Dawes (02) 9144 6700 Combined Acceptance (02) 9633 5800 Auto One Stop (07) 3802 5566 Kenyon (03) 9696 1219 www.kenyon.com.au Unique Car Underwriting 1800 651 014 Pyrah Tobin Brokers (02) 4285 9191 www.pyrahtobin.com.au Nsurance (03) 98470511

Maybe Admaz, on the cruise tomoroow you could apply the suplex or pile driver manouver on James, get him and the gang off their bums to finalise the VIC thing. I seriously think at this stage that's all that is holding the deal up..[james can confirm] Yes, it will include flywheels. As not to step on other distributors toes, they suggested to limit SAU to Skyline/Nissan models only & anything from heavy duty up. ..[Jamezilla can confirm] Shouldn't be taking this long???? Also be on the look out.. once Jamez sorts out this VIC thing out, I have a contact at a tyre manufacturer lined up to supply SAU permitting. ps: no crappy make either [spelling] OH-FEED-EL-SHUN

All sounds good... but I would really be interested in SydneyKids opinion on this. Also what was the cost for this again please.

"Comparing the two bellmouth designs, I've never seen either one so I can only speculate. But based on your description, and assuming neither of them have a divider wall/tongue between the turbine discharge and wg dump, I'd venture that you'd be hard pressed to measure a difference between the two. The more gradual taper intuitively appears more desirable, but it's likely that it's beyond the point of diminishing returns. Either one sounds like it will improve the wastegate's discharge coefficient over the stock config, which will constitute the single biggest difference. This will allow more control over boost creep. Neither is as optimal as the divorced wastegate flow arrangement, however. There's more to it, though-- if a larger bellmouth is excessively large right at the turbine discharge (a large step diameter increase), there will be an unrecoverable dump loss that will contribute to backpressure. This is why a gradual increase in diameter, like the conical diffuser mentioned earlier, is desirable at the turbine discharge. As for primary lengths on turbo headers, it is advantageous to use equal-length primaries to time the arrival of the pulses at the turbine equally and to keep cylinder reversion balanced across all cylinders. This will improve boost response and the engine's VE. Equal-length is often difficult to achieve due to tight packaging, fabrication difficulty, and the desire to have runners of the shortest possible length.” "Here's a worked example (simplified) of how larger exhausts help turbo cars: Say you have a turbo operating at a turbine pressure ratio (aka expansion ratio) of 1.8:1. You have a small turboback exhaust that contributes, say, 10 psig backpressure at the turbine discharge at redline. The total backpressure seen by the engine (upstream of the turbine) in this case is: (14.5 +10)*1.8 = 44.1 psia = 29.6 psig total backpressure So here, the turbine contributed 19.6 psig of backpressure to the total. Now you slap on a proper low-backpressure, big turboback exhaust. Same turbo, same boost, etc. You measure 3 psig backpressure at the turbine discharge. In this case the engine sees just 17 psig total backpressure! And the turbine's contribution to the total backpressure is reduced to 14 psig (note: this is 5.6 psig lower than its contribution in the "small turboback" case). So in the end, the engine saw a reduction in backpressure of 12.6 psig when you swapped turbobacks in this example. This reduction in backpressure is where all the engine's VE gains come from. This is why larger exhausts make such big gains on nearly all stock turbo cars-- the turbine compounds the downstream backpressure via its expansion ratio. This is also why bigger turbos make more power at a given boost level-- they improve engine VE by operating at lower turbine expansion ratios for a given boost level. As you can see, the backpressure penalty of running a too-small exhaust (like 2.5" for 350 hp) will vary depending on the match. At a given power level, a smaller turbo will generally be operating at a higher turbine pressure ratio and so will actually make the engine more sensitive to the backpressure downstream of the turbine than a larger turbine/turbo would. As for output temperatures, I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you referring to compressor outlet temperatures? The advantage to the bellmouth setup from the wg's perspective is that it allows a less torturous path for the bypassed gases to escape. This makes it more effective in bypassing gases for a given pressure differential and wg valve position. Think of it as improving the VE of the wastegate. If you have a very compromised wg discharge routing, under some conditions the wg may not be able bypass enough flow to control boost, even when wide open. So the gases go through the turbine instead of the wg, and boost creeps up. The downside to a bellmouth is that the wg flow still dumps right into the turbine discharge. A divider wall would be beneficial here. And, as mentioned earlier, if you go too big on the bellmouth and the turbine discharge flow sees a rapid area change (regardless of whether the wg flow is being introduced there or not), you will incur a backpressure penalty right at the site of the step. This is why you want gradual area changes in your exhaust." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Coates http://www.avoturbo.com

Here's the article... But could someone please explain this in lamens terms!!! I think SydneyKid has a brother ! Sigh.... Looks like I'm gonna have to bring out the big stick... Small dump pipe will NOT improve anything! The following excerpts are from Jay Kavanaugh, a turbosystems engineer at Garret, responding to a thread on www.impreza.net regarding exhaust design and exhaust theory: “Howdy, This thread was brought to my attention by a friend of mine in hopes of shedding some light on the issue of exhaust size selection for turbocharged vehicles. Most of the facts have been covered already. FWIW I'm an turbocharger development engineer for Garrett Engine Boosting Systems. N/A cars: As most of you know, the design of turbo exhaust systems runs counter to exhaust design for n/a vehicles. N/A cars utilize exhaust velocity (not backpressure) in the collector to aid in scavenging other cylinders during the blowdown process. It just so happens that to get the appropriate velocity, you have to squeeze down the diameter of the discharge of the collector (aka the exhaust), which also induces backpressure. The backpressure is an undesirable byproduct of the desire to have a certain degree of exhaust velocity. Go too big, and you lose velocity and its associated beneficial scavenging effect. Too small and the backpressure skyrockets, more than offsetting any gain made by scavenging. There is a happy medium here. For turbo cars, you throw all that out the window. You want the exhaust velocity to be high upstream of the turbine (i.e. in the header). You'll notice that primaries of turbo headers are smaller diameter than those of an n/a car of two-thirds the horsepower. The idea is to get the exhaust velocity up quickly, to get the turbo spooling as early as possible. Here, getting the boost up early is a much more effective way to torque than playing with tuned primary lengths and scavenging. The scavenging effects are small compared to what you'd get if you just got boost sooner instead. You have a turbo; you want boost. Just don't go so small on the header's primary diameter that you choke off the high end. Downstream of the turbine (aka the turboback exhaust), you want the least backpressure possible. No ifs, ands, or buts. Stick a Hoover on the tailpipe if you can. The general rule of "larger is better" (to the point of diminishing returns) of turboback exhausts is valid. Here, the idea is to minimize the pressure downstream of the turbine in order to make the most effective use of the pressure that is being generated upstream of the turbine. Remember, a turbine operates via a pressure ratio. For a given turbine inlet pressure, you will get the highest pressure ratio across the turbine when you have the lowest possible discharge pressure. This means the turbine is able to do the most amount of work possible (i.e. drive the compressor and make boost) with the available inlet pressure. Again, less pressure downstream of the turbine is goodness. This approach minimizes the time-to-boost (maximizes boost response) and will improve engine VE throughout the rev range. As for 2.5" vs. 3.0", the "best" turboback exhaust depends on the amount of flow, or horsepower. At 250 hp, 2.5" is fine. Going to 3" at this power level won't get you much, if anything, other than a louder exhaust note. 300 hp and you're definitely suboptimal with 2.5". For 400-450 hp, even 3" is on the small side.” "As for the geometry of the exhaust at the turbine discharge, the most optimal configuration would be a gradual increase in diameter from the turbine's exducer to the desired exhaust diameter-- via a straight conical diffuser of 7-12° included angle (to minimize flow separation and skin friction losses) mounted right at the turbine discharge. Many turbochargers found in diesels have this diffuser section cast right into the turbine housing. A hyperbolic increase in diameter (like a trumpet snorkus) is theoretically ideal but I've never seen one in use (and doubt it would be measurably superior to a straight diffuser). The wastegate flow would be via a completely divorced (separated from the main turbine discharge flow) dumptube. Due the realities of packaging, cost, and emissions compliance this config is rarely possible on street cars. You will, however, see this type of layout on dedicated race vehicles. A large "bellmouth" config which combines the turbine discharge and wastegate flow (without a divider between the two) is certainly better than the compromised stock routing, but not as effective as the above. If an integrated exhaust (non-divorced wastegate flow) is required, keep the wastegate flow separate from the main turbine discharge flow for ~12-18" before reintroducing it. This will minimize the impact on turbine efficiency-- the introduction of the wastegate flow disrupts the flow field of the main turbine discharge flow. Necking the exhaust down to a suboptimal diameter is never a good idea, but if it is necessary, doing it further downstream is better than doing it close to the turbine discharge since it will minimize the exhaust's contribution to backpressure. Better yet: don't neck down the exhaust at all. Also, the temperature of the exhaust coming out of a cat is higher than the inlet temperature, due to the exothermic oxidation of unburned hydrocarbons in the cat. So the total heat loss (and density increase) of the gases as it travels down the exhaust is not as prominent as it seems. Another thing to keep in mind is that cylinder scavenging takes place where the flows from separate cylinders merge (i.e. in the collector). There is no such thing as cylinder scavenging downstream of the turbine, and hence, no reason to desire high exhaust velocity here. You will only introduce unwanted backpressure. Other things you can do (in addition to choosing an appropriate diameter) to minimize exhaust backpressure in a turboback exhaust are: avoid crush-bent tubes (use mandrel bends); avoid tight-radius turns (keep it as straight as possible); avoid step changes in diameter; avoid "cheated" radii (cuts that are non-perpendicular); use a high flow cat; use a straight-thru perforated core muffler... etc.”

JAG: A comparison would be good. DAVE: I learnt the hard way, that the HKS Model description is a little confusing. So here goes... What I got is known as the HKS EVC 4 in the US, however in japan it's know as a HKS EVC 3. What's known in the US as a EVC 3 is known as a EVC 2 in Japan ... get the drift. The model your referring to for around $900 is known in Japan as a EVC 4 with the the seperat display unit similar to the blitz model. In the US it is known as a EVC 5... Other words US seem to add a 1 infront, the same way they do with their "vehicle model years" eg: WRX 04 as we know it, is to them know as a an WRX 05. Typical yanks!