Roy

Point is they could pe perfectly true and parallel. Put it on a car with a crappy wheel bearing, rusty hub etc and you may get run out. Interesting to see how you go putting the rotor that reads right on the bad side and test again. Real curious to see the result

double post

RB20 is a generation older. Designed at a time when moving over from leaded to unleaded. Slower processing speeds from ECUs meaning less control over combustion. Turbo technology was evolving and fair to assumed that with every later model of engine came a superior turbo with regards to flow and inlet temps. Not to mention the RB25 has variable inlet timing....its simply a generation newer and with that comes better control over detonation

if you are then I am all ears to know how it is conrolled as the dyno ti me will literally take dozens of hours

There is a nother little secret trick to be had too But I am saving that for my engine...waiting to sign a contract to ensure I have some cash flow for second half of year and my waste of money motor will finally get the nod

Seriously, is the picture you posted the same caliper that is for sale for $1200 for a set???? Can you point me in their direction?

Did you consider a secret handshake V-Cam RB20 or are there elegibility problems with running a later model head, series of engine?

If you want Ash, the best thing to di is power up my data logger in your car and do some stopping tests. Can bring a laser distance measure as well so you can compare stopping distance, with G force and time to stop from data logger. BE good to do it on the same car with same tyres, wheels and suspension. Only variable then will be the pads, be good if you were running the same pads between setups with freshly flushed fluid

Dunc...forget which way the bleed nipples point. Grab the caliper, orientate the caliper to the side of the car that means when you bolt it to the car the small piston points up and large piston closest to the ground and go from there. If orientating the caliper this way means your bleed nipples are facing down (as will be the case if you use Porsche calipers, Totoyota Supra, RX7 calipers etc etc) then swap over the bleed nipples/interest. If you use calipers off an EVO etc then the pistons will be orientated correctly If the pistons of your Porsche calipers were equal, then can i ask the reason why you had to swap over the bleed nipples. Are the calipers not symmetrical? Or do they offset the equal sized pistons to one side of the pad???? Seems strange PS, I would buy those calipers for $1200 for front and rear if you dont want them (Provided they are the pics posted, as they are not GT3 calipers!!!! )

I was waiting for a lift home....my thoughts, and again they are only an opinion and not in defence of the caliper/setup....but , firstly. Hats off to the guy for conducting all the testing, the time, equipment and setup means makes him pretty cool in my eyes to try and understand what is going on... That said, in order to really know if those tests mean anything I would want the following clarifications: Many of the G4/D2 calipers, whilst having more pistons actually have less hydraulic volume. So would be nice to see a measurement and calculation to confirm whether the hydraulic volume has increased or been reduced. The strange pedal feel with poor bite could be badly bled brakes, crap std pads, poorly bedded in brakes, glazed pads or any combination that explains things. A simple understanding of the hydraulic volume allows you to understand how/if the pedal feel shoudl be changing due to a change in hydraulic volume. Agree with the bit in italics The shudder, and locking brakes thing means the first thing I would be checking is whether there are uneven deposits/heat tint on the rotor or whether the pads are glazed. He hasnt mentioned he has checked it so its something I would want to rule out. For me this rings true because I had the same thing happen to me recently when with a decent sized brake upgrade its very hard to bed them all properly on the street. The breaking on gentle driving thing...put them on, and get on them and burn off all the fluff and get some heat into them. Dont go glowing red racing, but they need 10-12 stops to about 15km/h from 140km/h...with a 380mm setup and decent pads, maybe even that would not get enough heat into them and maybe need stops from 160km/h...cant do that on the street Also, look at the 3rd vid before hitting play. There is plenty of evidence that the caliper is too close to the inner face of the wheel. Any small rock etc is ovbviously getting between the caliper and wheel and damaging the caliper. So whether its an issue in this case, never run a brake setup with insufficient wheel clearance as you can damage wheels, brakes and can even end up with catastrophic brake failure. One last thing is the pics of the install, the install looks pretty grubby. If you push the pistons back the the pads shoudl be free to slide on the guides of the caliper, They should not bind due to pad not being a good fit or brake dust, rubber, grime build up. Alwas polish the stainless guide so that the pads backing plate will freely slide on the caliper. Especially important on these sorts of setups that use long pads, you dont want one edge to bind and the pad not evenly press on the rotor Caliper expanding under pressure Doesnt look encouraging, but others have said what were the std Mistu Brembos measurement? Are the wheel nuts torqued up as tight as they would be with the wheel in place? More importantly is the whole caliper deflecting or is it bellowing? By deflecting I mean is the rotor central to the caliper and pads squeezing the rotor rather then pushing the rotor to the centre. Is the caliper moving up near the bleed nipple? If you are getting similar results then it could be the mount is crap or the mounts need some machine washers installed to centre the rotor in the middle of the caliper. (I assume all the bolts are torqued correctly, and its not unusual to have creeking when doing this sort of test, but i would be trying to correlate teh creeking intensity with the measurement and what I am seeing) Either way i do suspect they bellow a hell of a lot, thats a gut feel basically from looking at how open the bridge is and general construction. So this could explain a spongey pedal under hard stops. But a caliper that bellows excessivley isnt the end of the world, it may hurt pedal feel a tad, but if you are running a nice pad and the setup doesnt over heat then I think thats more important to getting confidence in the pedal stop after stop Dynamometric wrench I dont really know what result to expect here. But the immediate questions I have is again, what measurement do you get with the std brakes? The thing is AWD so the resistance from diffs etc means you would get the same result from the front as you would with the rears. At least repeat the test he did without pads and if there is a difference then you know its because pads are running on the rotor. As is I think its a bit inconclusive...I know in my car its hard to turn the hub/rotor even when the caliper isnt on the car....so my 205,000kms wheel bearings are simply shagged. If i installed this kit and noticed they were hard to turn with fresh pads in...its easy to understand why one would think its the brakes and not the root problem of shagged bearing Rotor run out So they have run out. I wouldnt measure it where he did on a slotted rotor. The slots will always mean that material is often at the outer edge, cobined with the outer edge of the rotor being up in and around the gunk and deposits in the caliper. I would measure it in the middle of the rotor face where the pad is constantly sweeping the rotor face and wear should be even. A few other comments is that its a 380mm rotor so it will only take a little bit of garbage/corrosion on the hub behind the rotor and you will get some run out. Machine the rotor, re-install it and see what result you get. If its about the same then you know its in the wheel bearing, hub face etc, not the rotors fault. If the run out is fixed with a machine but comes back with a few heat cycles then you know the rotor's mettalurgy is simply rubbish. Radial difference in diam Thats nothing unusual. They are cast pieces of steel and are machined radially to balance them up ready to go on the car. No rotor is free of it, I can show you $850 a corner 376x36mm vane race rotors that are machined on the outer edge to balance them up So...baseed on the vast majority of people gettign reasonable results with these kits, I suspect he could have a problem with the pads being glazed and bedding the brakes properly. I am a bit of a brand whore and like trying different brakes....so have not tried one of these kits. I did have a KTS setup which are Endless 6 pot knock offs and the quality of the caliper was great, though they were never installed so only going on visual inspection. My only criticism of the KTS setup was the quality of the mount and brake lines...which seem pretty universal across these kits. Will be interesting to play around with your stuff Ash

So many things wrong with those test videos...I wouldnt be too concerned by what I see in the vids

A few people have commented on this and thought I would throw in my 2c. The non flowing head, rather then looking at a total number of cfm etc. Consider what volume each cylinder displaces. Then remember for good cylinder filling you need good velocity to give you torque and a usable power band. You happen to be limited in valve size in part by the bore and combustion chamber size, but its all related. You want small ports for small amounts of displaced volume so you have good velocity and cylinder filling and effecient combustion. So, I posted a similar thing a while ago in another thread. When you consider the surface area of valve between an SR20 and an RB20 you will find that as a ratio of displaced volume per cylinder...(500cc SR20 vs 333cc RB20) you will find the RB20 has more valve area then the SR20. This is perhaps why the RB20 performs better up to 260-280rwkws then SR20s when running std inlets, cams etc as given their displacement they plenty of cam from the factory for a 2L Six So for a 2L it flows just fine. If you want 400rwkws out of an RB20 say, then you are only going to make it with tonnes of revs and boost. Think about one cylinder of RB20 that spins one complete revolution. It only displaces so much air to mix with the fuel that gives you the power. The only way to cheat that is to give it more boost to squeeze in more air to mix with more fuel for more bang/power. Now think of an engine that runs for a minute and consider the engine as being a pump that moves air and fuel. If you have a smaller engine then the only way to match the volume of air and fuel being consumed to make power is with more revs. So that is the catch , you need to spin the RB20 harder to make the power, which is no real sin as with a short stroke, a small light piston and similar bearing sizes the RB20 is better capable of handling the bottom end loads you see with revs, well better then the RB25 and RB20 (all things being equal) A thing to consider is even when comparing to RB30s, if you have a small 250rwkw turbo on one they may not want to do much over 6,000rpm. The same turbo on an RB20 may make the same power but need to spin up 8,500rpm to do it. So as far as power bands go the RB30 may make 230 to 250rwkws between 3,500rpm and 6,500 rpm (3,000rpm power band) and the RB20 may make 230 to 250rwkws between 4,500rpm and 8,500 rpm giving you a 4,000rpm power band to work with. Truth is that isnt the perfect case as torque etc delivery will be different, and RB30 would smack an RB20 all round generally...but its food for thought and a different way to view things. Especially if you are looking for economic performance that means when you are up it...its quikc. If you want to take 40km/h corners in 3rd gear or accelerate in any gear rapdily then an RB20 is never going to do it. I am dubious if there is much you can do a std RB20 head to improve response on its own. If you clean up and match port things then you can perhaps make the engine a little happier to take ignition which will help drivability. Maybe with an RB25 like 9.0:1 compression rather then the std lower compression RB20 it will help drivability. There are a few things that can help, but this can be achived cheaply just by running a better quality fuel that allows you to put a better tune in a std motor. My advice, dont rebuild a running motor! If its blown then there are a few things you can do like discussed above, and a set of oversized pistons with a bump in compression and match porting with the right bolt ons would make for a decent enough thing. On a sidenote, i have often wondered what the different would be in an RB20 with 9.0:1 compression and an RB25 turbo and a std RB25 engine. Would be interesting

...What happened to you? You used to be somebody I liked. First the RB25 now SR20 power for this weekend

Since its a twin scroll housing and manifold, is the gate plumbed up with pipe from both side of the flange?

You may need the std section of pipe that has the BOVs

Ah, poor Hamo... If he acknowldeges it is hard to overtake and you have to give it a go when you get half a chance then I would be with him. But saying it was the other guys fault when he was trying to be opportunistic...well. Be interesting to see how he goes. He likes to think of himself as a Monaco master but he has only won once here and I think that irks him

I thought it was a great race. SOOO funny watching Button show his class on and off the track and his The Butcher of Woking biff into everything that moved. Vettel has it all falling into his lap. Even when he makes a mistake he ends up in front...not much ayone can do. Just hope Webber can get his head around the tyres sooner or later so that at least he can finish strong with a few GP wins and second in the WDC

LOL, Hamilton proving he can be as bad as he can be good. So much for all his talk pre-race. What a butchers move on poor Maldanado

Hamilton showing he can hack it up with the best of them

What just happened? Fark me its funny to see the big teams get the basics so wrong

Come on Mark...get it off the line!

What do you mean by not controlleable? Too much boost and gate not opening? There are few cases of people having this problem with 6boost manifolds and it comes back to the gate being mounted too far from the collector. 6boost provide a 45deg elbow and best bet is to weld one side to the manufold collector and the other to the flange for the gate, making it as short as possible. Like this...

I was rooting for the guy, preying he was going to get Vettel. The traffic for him was no different to what it was for Vettel, there was actually one moment with a car where Vettel got badly baulked and Hamo was right on him....he is having a sook because his nature is to be a whiney bitch. In the heat of battle it appears to surface when he gets a sniff....all this talk that he is the only one able to take it to Vettel....i like myguys to have a little humility. He slags off the team sayign the car is no match for RBR, yet he has won a GP and has better race pace at the last round...yet still sooks the car isnt quick, the other competitors are against him because he isnt German or the sponsors of teams. GIVE IT A BREAK HOMO! I was just about converted...but now I am going to have to go back for rooting for Button to t-bone you

What is with this guy...he chills out and is pretty cool when he is a long shot or occassional race winner...give him a snaiff and he goes back to be a whining c0ck bag ... http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/6953628/Now-Hamilton-moans-about-STR-drivers

I have been there with RB26 cams....sound tough but SH!T!!!!