Roy

Yeh, it will all be deabted again when we see who is crowned champion. But i still want to know how McLaren can claim they know he was Xkm/h slower then the Ferrari? Do they have Ferrari data? It seems a bit , well a number thrown out there to appease the media and argument ?!?!?!?! And i woudl not put it past Kimi playign games down that return straight. He was in the leed, Lewis had just cut a corner....i wouldnt put it past any talented WDC to be pulling the chain of the guy behind when you know you dont have the car speed. ...that is pure speculation. But all Kimi had left in him and the car was smoke and mirrors... Roll on McLaren being excluded from all practice and qualifying as the Italian Police search transporters after a tip that they are transporting illegal immigrants into the country with bellies full of drugs

That mod class sounds wild. Shame there is no way i could i) afford the event, ii) last the event without mechanical failures iii) not bend it iv) get someone game enough to sit in the wild seat

Hmmm, its an interesting one. How about we look at the Webber / Heikki incident. If Webber had spun the next lap and crashed because he was tryign to make up for lost track position, does that mean Heikki shoudl not have to serve a drive through? Its actions and consequences. I dont mean to make a paper thin argument, but if a guy leading a race loses 1st position with 2 laps to go then throwing caution into the wind punts it into a wall in slippery conditions tryign to bridge the gap.....well i dont think you can say that because Kimi binned it the passign move had no effect on the race result. Hey, that could be viewed differently...but thats my take on it...it seems both perspectives have merit. Though i think the Heikki/Webber example highlights my concern over JYS perspective.

And hats off to him. But it was a gamble. So there is a price to pay if it didnt come off. You say that Kimi was compromised coming onto the straight because he ran wide in the right hander with Lewis being squeezed. Well, Lewis didnt pay any price for his gamble, He fot all his chips back plus interest and parked it in an ideal track position to attack at the very next corner.....when in reality the fumbled attempt and well defended move shoudl have had him a good 2 seconds behind. The fact that he would have bridged that gap easily means in retrospect he and the McLaren team were a little too trigger happy.

lol....good night wing nut ...in lok forward to Italian stewards taking care of business this weekend

I agree with JS re the full time stewards...but some of other stuff, well he sits on the other side of the argument...there are two valid views....BUT JS - "We saw earlier in the year, at Silverstone, that Raikkonen isn't comfortable driving his Ferrari in the wet and it was the same on Sunday. Hamilton was clearly much faster and was going to pass him sooner or later. The stewards should have taken that into account. Cant agree. Stewards deal with the event on its merits. Not what happened several GPs ago in wet conditions...and they should have used their crystal ball to predict that Lewis was not going to make a mistake and KImi would have been slower and nto able to match the pace of the McLaren. If that was the case they shoudl promote Webber a few spots as they can crystal ball that if Heikki didnt punt him he woudl have finished higher up as well. The last thing the system needs is to introduce more subjective opinion....thats my opinion JS seems more pre-occupied with Lewis cutting the chicane, with "Yes he gained a position..." seeming like an afterhought. Not the issue it was. He gave back the position, but my understanding is he was penalised because he gained an advantage. Harry got it in one re the constantina effect. He gaiend track position on Kimi....its all very line ball but i think on that ruling they are correct. Did he dive up under brakes courtesy of Kimi being too careful...yes. BUT, JT correctly pointed out...you hang arond the outside like that and if the move doesnt pay off....then you lose time on ....he gained time out of the situation...so. Thats it....fark it i am going to drink more of this horrible Indian wine

Dont bring nationalities into it? I am not going to be goated anymore Adam...

I agree...its just another example of their being no valid view point other then that presented by Adam

His comments cover my thoughts/posts nicely "When you attack on the outside, you do it at your own risk, because who's on the inside has the right to do the corner. If there isn't enough room, then you lift. "Had there been a wall there, instead of the surfaced escape route, would Lewis have attacked anyway? Had there been gravel, he wouldn't have had the chance to attack when rejoining the track because of dirty tyres." And Adam, your postr about having never raced cars???? I dont get your point. Neither have you so you are guessing as much as the rest of us, or going on what you have read just like the rest of us. Fact is a big part of racing is controlling your emotions, to ensure you dont overdrive the car, make a mistake, damage something. When they let it all hang out and are human is when its fun to watch....but not good driving from the teams perspective

I agree to an extent re all the adrenaline....thats why i make the point its a good team that can control their driver and tell him what he needs to hear when he needs to hear it!

How do you figure 15 points?

DJ...you are getting a bit carried away with numbers Its abotu track position, and cutting the kerb gave it to him. The 6km/h thing is from Mclaren, i would like to know how they know how quick the Ferrari was going? Seems a fair question?

God help you. Didnt you guys get lost or something around the Thunderdome? I mean you had GPS and after all the thing is just one big circle!

Listening to the engine pitch after cutting the chicane, i suspect Lewis knew exactly what he was doign when letting Kimi get a bees dick ahead before jumping up the inside. He lay have lifted to let Kimi by, but he played it pretty close to the ruling of re-addressing the position/not gaining an advantage. Looking how quick the Mac was he probably now realises he didnt have to play it so close to the line. Yeh Adam, i saw that angle on the night, hence my comments straight after the race that he may well be in trouble as it was being discussd before the delayed press conference. But, doesnt change a thing, other then perhaps Hamfist may be a little more patient/careful in the future...a bad thing for F1 but a good thing for McLaren

And, doesnt really paint a different picture to what we already know. If anything it shows how little space he gave Kimi on the straight...but that point is mute now. It was a tough call, but as soon as it happened i thought "drive through" as the FIA have form for it. Its another case of McLaren hurting themselves almost as much as the FIA does

Pussycar Doll, i will pay that...but JayZ...lol, i would punch that guy in thre cock. Mandella? Hmmm. Thinking about it, the Pussycar Dolls bird is just a tarted up stripper and at least Kimi has the presence of mind to leave them in the strip club...not take them home

OOh, very interested. Though a few questions, is it the 80mm or the 90mm. Does it have a centre muffler and just confirming it does come with the bung to stuff up its bum to quiten it down (it says in the sig of the thread but not the body of the post? Lastly, regarding postage to Melbourne, are you happy to ship it? Is it one piece, two peices etc etc. I may be able to get a family member to pick it up depending where you are located in Sydney

The MyChron Gold has been a good thing. Only catch was about a year ago i was flashing it with an update and my laptop battery died half way through it. The AiM usint doesnt protect its start of software, so it would nto reboot. I had to send it off to be re-flashed byt the factory in Italy

I desperately want that car!

If, did, what. Kimi crashed out. The pass under yellows when Rosberg had spun would have been an interesting one. I suspect for a second there it was avoid at all cost, then crime of opportunity. I hear what you are saying and agree to an extent. But Lewis' track position alongside Kimi is what is beign questioned. The hard thing to get around though is, did he have to yield. Yes. This means he gained an unfair advantage by cutting the chicane. So that is a given, the area that is grey is whether he yielded sufficiently so that an advantage was carried to the next corner. I can perfectly understand how the FIA ruled this to be the case. I repeat, its line ball but i dont think Lewis had to play it that close to the line. He was unlucky to get pinned by it...but its not a completely left of field penalty by the FIA. I wonder if this had happened on the 3rd lap of the race would the situation be viewed any differently?!?! Go Massa... i am rotting for ya, only because outside of your parents and MS nobody cares for you

Adam, i would have thought that it would not be too hard for drivers to not bend the rules when they are out there. I mean, they have a pit full of people who can get messages to the driver through the radio. They know what flags mean out of the corner of their eyes. They know the rules...its up to the team on the radio to talk to the drivers, tell them to settle down when required, concentrate when required, have a go when required. MS had the presense of mind to park it at Monaco a few years ago...i think drivers know exactly what they are doing when they are out there. And yes the punishment does fit the crime. A stop go penalty for gaining an advantage by cutting a chicane. You have to look at the crime and penalty in isolation from the end race result. If this happened to two cars racing for 13th and 14th it would not even be dicussed, well not with this level of emotion. Its a massive kick in the jocks because it means Lewis loses two positions. Either make the call or not make the call. FIA cant say well we were going to penalise him, but it would have meant he would have come 3rd. They deemed he gained an advantage and bingo. So stick to arguing that he shoudl not have been penalisedm, because if you start talking the severity of it then you admit that there was an infringement, and he got the penalty typically administered

No, i am not blind. Lewis was in the best seat in the house. Damp, changable conditions means you would always rather be following the other car and let them find the limits. Its no surprise he was able to clsoe in quickly, Kimi slowed as he had no idea of grip levels. Lewis could see that the Ferrari looked ok in the grip department and drove accordingly. It was great driving by Lewis. And re the traction down the straight, well Kimi was comign out of a tighter bend from a slower speed, Lewis was straight lining a corner so i question your point, do you think the power down out of the corner would have differed dramatically if they were following each other through the corner? Under brakes Kimi would have either out broken himself guessing the grip levels or Lewis would have sailed under him seeing that Kimi was brakign too early and grip levels still ok. Its the changable considtions that Lewis was clever in expoliting. If it was bucketing down rain then it woudl have bene interesting to see if the grip levels were known whether the McLaren/Lewis would have hammered the Ferrari/Kimi so convincingly

Adam.... F1 has long been about politics and drama. That is really most of the appeal. Its not just about the racing. If it were we would all be watching Formula Vee. I can see the decisions as being dodgy, but i cant see how this calls for storming of the tower. In my eyes, Lewis had the race in his hands. He put himself again in this silly position where the rules are questioned and debated. Its a tough call, and one that i dont completely agree with, but i can easily see how its come about and really in recent history i say its probably consistant. He gained an advantage. Now how the FIA were supposed to handle the situation...well it would have been kind of mute if Hamo hadnt tested the rule in the first place. Everyone sayign how Kimi ran wide as well a few corners before binning it....you forget that Lewis was out there as well and Kimi went around him so was even more off track as a result. Its not like Kimi took to the run off and gained an advantage... Anyway...next few races will be interesting. Come on Nick, will see f he can get another podium. I want to put Webber back in the seat alongside him and see how they fair in 2009

I had one of these made up from an RX7 core years ago for my R31. Never got around to insalling it though as i was at the time hunting around for a wrecked Liberty so i could steal the pumps etc. At the time i was hunting around for an STI cooler as that would be a far better basis for a water to air cooler. The problem with the std cooler is they have about a 2psi pressure drop accross them. So good ideam, but go for a top mount STI cooler, plated up and over the turbo with the right sort of temp shielding. Remember two layers of aluminium with an air gap between them will stop most of the heat getting into the cooler. Your inlet track will be about 6inches in total and you will have pretty good inelt temps. Only problem is weight and complexity, pumps can fail etc etc