Spacers And Track Days

[someonestolecc]

Gday,

I recently took my car to the tyre shop to get some new tyres fitted and the guys freaked when they saw the spacers on the front wheel.

"YOU GO TO THE TRACK AND YOU HAVE SPACERS?!?! FUARRK"

They're the type that screw into the hub and they have their own studs the wheel goes on. The wheels I have don't seem to have the guide the goes onto/around the hub so the studs do all the work. I always thought that was normal.

Is this dangerous? Should I be taking the spacers off on the track and putting a full set of wheels with no spacers on?

[Beer Baron]

i dunno, i've thought about it a bit too. i mean generally the little hub ring is what carries all the load, the studs just pull the wheel onto it. so if it's not sitting on that lip the it may not be centrally located (though the tapered wheel nuts should ensure it is pretty much there). plus like you say all the load is on the studs. I have acutally heard of a guy who had wheels on with no hubcentric ring and on the track (phillip island) his studs broke and the wheel came flying off. so i guess it is a risk.

[someonestolecc]

Shit Richard sounds bad.

I heard of this hub ring thing in another thread but regardless of my spacers my wheels don't have this. Is this bad? They're manarays so they're not total rubbish.

I can't remember if the spacers have a hub ring.

So.. I should be getting new wheels or what?

[MerlinTheHapyPig]

yeah, there is some debate over this,

they are not legal in victoria.. however they are commonly used, and I haven't heard of any bad experiences with them, i mean as long as all the nuts are tight, it shouldn't be any different to having lower offset wheels on? I guess the centering could be an issue but i really don't know.

[GTRgeoff]

Definitely a concern. My spacers o the track car fit tight onto the hub ring so centering and shear loads are carried by the hub, then there is a further ring for the wheel and a different PCD of studs in the spacer.

Hunt around to see if you can get locating rings to fill the space or even get them machined to suit at an engineering shop. Certainly worth the peace of mind. I've seen plenty of studs brocken and a lot were with cheap spacers you get from Superautocheapbarn.

[someonestolecc]

Definitely a concern. My spacers o the track car fit tight onto the hub ring so centering and shear loads are carried by the hub, then there is a further ring for the wheel and a different PCD of studs in the spacer.

Hunt around to see if you can get locating rings to fill the space or even get them machined to suit at an engineering shop. Certainly worth the peace of mind. I've seen plenty of studs brocken and a lot were with cheap spacers you get from Superautocheapbarn.

D'oh. Yet another thing to do

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll double check my spacers I hope they're ok.

I don't understand how the wheels would be made without the centering ring however. Maybe I've just missed it but everytime I put the wheel on I use one of the studs as a guide. When I look through the wheels where they attached to the hub it's just the 2 surfaces put together - so if you don't do up the nuts for example, the wheel will just flay, not sit tight on the hub ring. This is even true for the rear wheels which have no spacers.

[ferni]

I've used my on the track at a few places, including PI and had no problems...

[Beer Baron]

CC: have a nother look at them. when they are on the car they just look flat up against the hub, that's because the ring goes inside a recess in the wheel. sometimes this recess is too big in which case you will need to fit a hubcentric ring to make it the correct size. aluminium ones are good, but some people like plastic ones. the wheel wont sit on it without the nuts done up (it will just flay like you say), that is why you need the nuts and studs to force it onto the hub ring. it definately is important.

there is nothing wrong with bolt on spacers really providing they fit on the hub ring, and have another ring on their face to locate your wheel and take the force.

[dangerous_daveo]

Anyone got pictures to discribe this better. Even ms paint will do. Im pretty sure I know what you are all talking about. If Im right it means I've got the same prob as Tom

[Beer Baron]

well here's some info on google:

Hub centric rings are manufactured so that when they are installed on a vehicle, the wheels are located directly off of the centre flange of the brake drum or rotor. This is done to insure that the outer beads of the wheel are concentric with the wheel bearings. The result is a much truer, better balanced tire/wheel assembly. This is very important with modern high tech suspension systems.

that explains the rings i was talking about. they have an OD to fit snugly into your rim and an ID that allows them to fit snugly over the OD of the centre of the hub.

edit: they look like so:

[Beer Baron]

see the ring in the centre of the hub, this is what your wheel (or spacer) needs to fit snugly onto:

without this contact you 'can' get broken studs premeturely worn wheel bearings (which you can get running spacers and/or very wide wheels) and at worst a runaway wheel...

[thommo]

i don't have spacers, but the work rims i got had a central hole bigger than the hub (ie didn't centre correctly on the hub).

was a little concerned that this would be putting unnecessary stress on the studs, so bought a set of those plastic rims for a wheel & tyre place for $20.

they basically just centre the rim on the hub correctly.

[Beer Baron]

the best ones to get are the aluminium ones (like this pic) but i'm sure the plastic ones are ok too. in fact i think now some people argue the plastic ones can be better depending on brand.

[dangerous_daveo]

see the ring in the centre of the hub, this is what your wheel (or spacer) needs to fit snugly onto:

without this contact you 'can' get broken studs premeturely worn wheel bearings (which you can get running spacers and/or very wide wheels) and at worst a runaway wheel...

Yep ok.

Thats what I was thinking

As I already have spacers... Is it posible to get something to go in to the wheel its self, that is longer than the spacer? I mean my mechanic isnt overly concerned, but Im just thinking R tyres at 160kmh or so, thats a fair bit of stress.

[Duncan]

Hub rings aside, for spacers the bolt on ones are fine, they are just like a hub with a different offset and are not problem. But...the ones that slip over the wheel nuts (by far the most common) are not safe, the wheel nut does not have as much stud to screw onto and the stud itself is not properly supported (leverage at the end not right against the hub)

[dangerous_daveo]

Hub rings aside, for spacers the bolt on ones are fine, they are just like a hub with a different offset and are not problem. But...the ones that slip over the wheel nuts (by far the most common) are not safe, the wheel nut does not have as much stud to screw onto and the stud itself is not properly supported (leverage at the end not right against the hub)

Yes... thats what I have. I got longer studs so the nut actually grips on to something. But I dont think thats a good fix.

[Beer Baron]

the bolt one ones are only good if they have the little ring on them too. some of them dont and just have a flat surface on one side, then you are back to sqaure one.

[Beer Baron]

bad:

good:

slide one ones (these need longer studs)

[someonestolecc]

Good call.

I'll be checking this cos it's freaked me out.

Cheers Richard - appreciate it.

[blind_elk]

I don't understand how the wheels would be made without the centering ring however.

It's not a problem of the wheel not having a centring ring (it does), it's that the spacers are lacking the matching half of the design.