Driver Training/testing.

[GTAAAH]

yaa cool now the next generation of P-platers will know how to drift on suburban streets, without having to worry about losing control

If vicroads is going to start focusing on extensive driver training courses its just as important that every one has to sit the course as it is to P-Platers to sit it. Should be every licence renewal if they want to train us, and it should come out of vicroads budget as well (not be lumped in with the renewal or the licence testing fee's)

That said, i think 90% of P-Platers would be quite happy to do the course provided vicroads pay

Edited July 23, 2006 by r32 gts-turbo

[ebola]

Driver education can help people to realise just how lacking the hoon mentality is. When they realise their car cant stop on a dime, that human reflexes are slow, and that dead people can't be fixed.

Driver education isn't just skills, isn't just HOW. Its also WHY.

When you realise the consequences of what happens if....

[Mavric]

That’s very true ebola. The key thing is that allot of these "HOONS" so to speak have never been in a car when it is out of control or in a situation where something or someone steps out in front of them and they are required to stop in an "emergency" situation.

These kind of situations don’t generally happen while you are on your L's and drivers are getting into cars regardless of power not knowing what to do if these situations do arise.

We have all at some given point in time had a situation where we scared the hell out of ourselves or did something stupid and went hey that was dumb and generally never done it again, and why cas we realised after we did it how stupid it was. Learnt from a mistake we were never shown while learning to drive. Sure we may have been told not to do it but never actually shown how serious it is and how quick and accident can occur if things get out of sorts.

I also to one extent agree with you r32 gts-turbo in your point about the government paying for the training, but where do you expect them to get the money from? Don’t say they have heaps. I don’t see someone spending an extra few hundred dollars before they get their licence for some additional training which in turn will hopefully save their life as a bad thing… No dollar value can be put on ones life… Instead of driving around the block with a driving instructor and paying $80an hour, going to a track/controlled environment and getting some professional training is not all that bad, especially when the cost is not all that outrageous.

[saff_cossie]

Some good points Mav in there. The whole training needs to be structured and thorough with those areas then tested on during the test. All the training needs to come before the test though.

Once tested, we all know what its like, nothing can pry the car from the new driver. Most people wouldnt choose to take part in a skill workshop especially when they have to pay and those $$ could be spent on driving the streets with their mates.

The UK offer something called Pass Plus which gives a tiny discount on insurance if successfully completed. I had the option of this but didnt do it as I had learnt to drive over the winter on snow covered roads, black ice, freezing fog etc. I also had a bonus lesson from my driving school on motorway driving so had that covered. In all honesty, experience wise, I would have gained very little due to the exposure I had already had as it wasnt a "get the car out of shape and correct it course" but more just to drive in the conditions.

Trying to get drivers back once the licence is issued will not work IMO. Bad habits are picked up instantly.

The other point is deaths on the road will always happen no matter how much training is provided, the toll just needs to be reduced and the good habits on the road increased.

[Mavric]

That’s right Saff, Im not trying to say that training is going to be the answer and no one will ever have an accident because that’s impossible. There is always going to be human error as people obviously make mistakes, but i still believe that this would reduce the road toll and also limit the amount of accidents on our roads.

Another point you raised was freeway driving sure my parents taught me to drive on the freeway but how many didn’t or had parents who couldn’t do it in the first place.. (ie joining the freeway at 60km, or just stopping all together). Something else that should also be introduced teaching people to merge into traffic..

Unfortunately the list of things which should be taught could go on forever, people are always complaining about how others cant drive yet most of the time they were never taught correctly how to do it in the first place. With any luck stricter training programs will be implemented and with any luck eliminate a few of these problems.

[Interloper]

Another point you raised was freeway driving sure my parents taught me to drive on the freeway but how many didn’t or had parents who couldn’t do it in the first place.. (ie joining the freeway at 60km, or just stopping all together).

fark i hate the people who slow down to merge....cos i'm always behind them expecting to speed up and then suddenly having to almost stop to avoid rear ending them

[700HP-GTR33]

Does anyone notice how news reports *cough bullshit police coverup cough* always state that the "police pursuit was called off" and shortly after the vehicle being chased happens to hit a pole or have a major accident... PfffFt what a crock of shit. More like the chase was still on when the accident occurred.

They want to train them so at least there is a race....... I agree

just a cover up to protect their own arses........and saying they really care

about it after and training could have avoided the poor bastard from dieing...

When will the public really be told the truth?

How many people will the police kill on the road before we wake up and stand up to fight this?

What is anybody doing about this anyway?

These are the questions that need to be asked.

Not ....we need training because we can't drive

Why chase him/her anyway....get a digital camera mounted on the front bar...record the speed and then send the warrant with a few police over their house...take the car off them later....not see this sort of shit happen over and over again. Training is a lame excuse to make the public think they care (Young Police Hero's). Power hungry?Looking for a race?Lets train them to kill us?

What ever happend to that law....which states if the chase is considered dangerous by the police it should be called off...maybe the police should be under investigation for not obeying the law.

I wonder what the chase was all about anyway?

If the occupant of the car is a criminal under investigation and had just commited murder / let the race begin.

After all i dont want to see people like that on the road either......

Training............has no relevence to this story.

[ferni]

You need to scare these P platers into not doing stupid shit. I'm all for driver training, to show them how to control a car and what a car can and can't do, but at the end of the day, usually what determines a driver who doesn't have an accident is they are afraid of what might happen... and usually you get that fear with age and experience (experience of actually being in an accident usually works)....

My car now scares the crap out of me on the streets, i can't drive it anywhere near the limit on street, i'm just too scared of what might happen, what if someone pulls out in front of me, what if theres something on the road i don't see in time... where was when i was on my P's i had a pissy little 4 cyl so even when i was being stupid i wasn't going fast enough to do serious damage.

[Omurru]

I always remember my first official driving lesson with an racv instructor (i had had about a year of driving before that), but he said to me if he had his way, before anyone even got out on the road he would sit them in a car on a wet skidpan and tell them to go nuts. He reckoned majority of people have no idea where the limits of their car are, all they know is how to drive it in general from A-B and thats it. If they are in a situation for whatever reason where they need to regain control of their vehicle they have no idea how to. For a physical thing like driving people can only learn from experience, you can't tell them anything.....

Although i do agree with 700HP-GTR33 as well, the fact the police have become invincible is bullshit, lets face it they can basically do whatever they want with no repremand whatsoever.

Just my 2c....

[TracidTrax]

“The pursuit was terminated"

thats what they always say...

ye terminated once the driver had already hit the pole

[SKY031]

If people lack basic common sense, no amount of driver training will help.

If a Police car is behind you with flashing lights/sirens, you pull over.

The accident mentioned at the start of this thread is in regards to a criminal act, not lack of driver training.

The driver simply didn't pull over.

However, I'm not buying 100% into the story being told by Police, which stated that they called off the chase 300 meters prior to the crash scene.

This doesn't smell right.

[Roy]

Can i recommend this for ppl that do 200+ in ther cars on suburban streets

[ebola]

However, I'm not buying 100% into the story being told by Police, which stated that they called off the chase 300 meters prior to the crash scene.

at 120 kph, that is 9 seconds of travel time...

at 160 kph, that is 7 seconds of travel time...

How long after the chase is 'called off' do the cops slow down? stop?

But as much as I dislike (traffic) police, the damn fool was doing a runner. It was his fault. Why is everyone afraid of taking responsibility for their own actions?

[700HP-GTR33]

at 120 kph, that is 9 seconds of travel time...

at 160 kph, that is 7 seconds of travel time...

How long after the chase is 'called off' do the cops slow down? stop?

But as much as I dislike (traffic) police, the damn fool was doing a runner. It was his fault. Why is everyone afraid of taking responsibility for their own actions?

The chase should have been called off earlier.......just say the fool hit a pedestrian that you knew.

Thats the shit i am talking about ....who cares for the runner......he/she is mad.

And if anyone got into a car with someone as stupid as them they are mad aswell.

[saff_cossie]

You need to scare these P platers into not doing stupid shit. I'm all for driver training, to show them how to control a car and what a car can and can't do, but at the end of the day, usually what determines a driver who doesn't have an accident is they are afraid of what might happen... and usually you get that fear with age and experience (experience of actually being in an accident usually works)....

My car now scares the crap out of me on the streets, i can't drive it anywhere near the limit on street, i'm just too scared of what might happen, what if someone pulls out in front of me, what if theres something on the road i don't see in time... where was when i was on my P's i had a pissy little 4 cyl so even when i was being stupid i wasn't going fast enough to do serious damage.

Couldnt agree more. A spot on post.

Watching traffic the other day when I was on the freeway. Its not just the ones going too slow on the slip lanes, its the ones who sit too close coming down the ramp. The Heatherton Rd on ramp going away from the city had 5 cars bumper to bumper when there are already more cars in the inside lane than a lot of other junctions due to the South Gippsland Fwy turn off immediately after. It should be like cogs, each car slots between the next and so on.

[SS8_Gohan]

So you know too - we'll be talking to Kev from Driver Dynamics in the next few weeks about a series of driver training courses for SAU members.

Whether you've been driving for 10 weeks or 10 years, these courses will be of great value. We will operate them as a series of 3 - beginner, intermediate and advanced.

Nothing like setting a good example

James

yeah, get that squared away

[twisties]

I agree that being in an accident changed your views... not long ago my idiot friend who isnt the best driver decided to try some fishtailing on a gravel road... He of course couldn't controll that lovely pendulum effect and ran us through a nice think fence pole and up onto two wheels. Not only did it scare the whits out of us, he has had to pay around $1000 replacing panels and respraying on a car that was only worth $2k(still paying off the loan too). In his situation I don't believe training would have helped as he would have probably done it at 100kmh instead of 80 thinking he was better, allthough education on what could have happened before he went and did it might have made him think twice.

I jsut got my P's and theres nothing like kicking out the nagging mother and goin for a hoon. But personally id rather find a nice big open deserted gravel patch and do some handbrakies. Or letting out my desire for speed on Gran Turismo or an arcade simulator. Heh, i know i can't get myself out of a sticky situation, hence i choose not to intentionally cause one.

Edited July 25, 2006 by twisties

[VB-]

I agree that being in an accident changed your views... not long ago my idiot friend who isnt the best driver decided to try some fishtailing on a gravel road... He of course couldn't controll that lovely pendulum effect and ran us through a nice think fence pole and up onto two wheels. Not only did it scare the whits out of us, he has had to pay around $1000 replacing panels and respraying on a car that was only worth $2k(still paying off the loan too). In his situation I don't believe training would have helped as he would have probably done it at 100kmh instead of 80 thinking he was better, allthough education on what could have happened before he went and did it might have made him think twice.

I jsut got my P's and theres nothing like kicking out the nagging mother and goin for a hoon. But personally id rather find a nice big open deserted gravel patch and do some handbrakies. Or letting out my desire for speed on Gran Turismo or an arcade simulator. Heh, i know i can't get myself out of a sticky situation, hence i choose not to intentionally cause one.

this happened to me too, except it was done on a wet night on an empty road, no fence, just a gutter. 10 grand later and my mates back on the street!

As for the accident that started it all, im 17 myself, and live in the area, lived in dandy for 16 years (now in hampton park), my dad lives in doveton, about 10-15 houses away from the accident, and i might have even known this person. i DO feel sorry for em, especially the family, but i mean, they were doing a runner, and couldnt outrun a cop, so he needs more driver trining? so maybe he would have gotten away the other night, his mate would live, then today, when a cop flicks his lights on, he tells his passengers not to worry, hes outrun cops before, he can do it agian, then he tries a runner again, except this time when he f*cks up, he kills you or your wife/kids.... i dont even know if i agree with my own point here but its something to think about

[justin911]

couldnt agree more

But as much as I dislike (traffic) police, the damn fool was doing a runner. It was his fault. Why is everyone afraid of taking responsibility for their own actions?

[twisties]

Twas his own fault indeed. I have no time for people who can't own up to their own stupidity