The Automatic Performance Thread

[scotty nm35]

And what do you think a full programmable auto controller does Steve? I think you need to read up, a full manual gives you no control, other than gear selection.

At least you have infinite adjustment of the line pressure and solenoids then, and you don't get stuck with whatever clunky manual sequential setup the auto specialist decides to give you.

[zoomzoom]

I looked at that option because I just wanted to modify the points at which the torque converter locks up, but its a very pricey solution just to tinker with a few variables.

In fact its a point which has been bugging me. When I spoke to MV automatics, they stated that the TCC is only meant to take 30-40hp for cruising, yet I find it will lock up under heavy acceleration in 2nd and 3rd. However it unlocks very easily in overdrive, and wont initially lock up above maybe %15 throttle, unless you're going over 110kph.

A minor thing, but still annoying.

[scotty nm35]

My RE5 locks the torque converter constantly in manual selection, and stays unlocked in drive unless cruising. It obviously didn't last long with the torque I was pushing, so they made me a new converter with triple Patrol lock up clutches.

The programmable control unit is the cheap part, around $7-800 I think. Fitting it wouldn't be cheap, I am sure Greg could give us a ballpark for the RE4 as he had his installed a year or so ago. No-one has fitted one to an RE5 before as far as I know, but it would be great for adjusting pressures and shift speed in relation to load.

[Kinkstaah]

I have a PCS2000 TCM on my car, I don't really know of anyone else who has it. I got it, because I mauled a MV shift kit in about 10,000kms.

The R34 has triptronic, if you were R33 I wouldn't be using this as you don't have both 'modes' to play with. Obviously picking the RPM you want is better than tinkering with things.

It lets you control every variable. So not just TCM lockup, but the amount of line pressure you want, shift points, on a 3D table with input (either MAP sensor or TPS) (tps in my case)

In short, in "d" mode I have a car which uses very bugger all pressure down low, and you can adjust the behaviour of when you want it to shift. Essentially you have taxi mode.

In triptronic mode, you get full manual control with spinebreaking shifts at the literal press of a button.

In triptronic mode, at low throttle and low speed (say, changing from 1st to 2nd, to 3rd, to 4th) under 40kph, you feel nothing at all.

Try it at 3k at half throttle from 1-2 and you will feel it. Try it at 3k RPM at full throttle and you will feel it more. Try it at 7k RPM, full throttle and you will REALLY feel it. (well, I have no grip here but I assume I'd definitely feel it)

I was told this behaviour isn't possible without a computer, that the harder shifting you want up top of the rev range, you get twice as hard shifts down lower in the rev range. No way to get smooth shifts down low and massively tight shifts up top without a computer.

This is what I have been told, seems to line up with peoples experiences with shift kits.

The item cost about 1k (shipping from US)

cost about another 1k to tune.

I have spent more on my transmission than most.. and honestly I understand why people do not do this.

I don't really have enough of a reference point driving anyone else's car to really compare as to whether it's worth it, though.

Maybe one person will say "Man, this is better than a manual" and then instantly it will be worth all the pain and suffering this thing has caused me.

[zoomzoom]

Can you explain how the shift kit was "mauled"? Do you mean the modded valve body, and what happened to it?

[Kinkstaah]

My car originally was a N/A. So it was the N/A transmission that got sent. I was under the impression from reading (here) that the N/A R34 transmission is much the same, before it gets built anyway. I have since learned this is not true, and MV didn't mention this to me either before they built what I sent them.

I sent the entire transmission to MV for a stage 2 build. Everything bar going completely full manual, because as a Triptronic I had the ability to select gears already, so that feature wasn't needed (for a 33 I would have gone full manual, or actually just manual)

It was put in the car (220-250rwkw at the time)

Lasted about 10,000kms then every gear was neutral.

The entire transmission was binned, I have never ever heard anyone give a more scathing review of another workshop's work before, the only part that was re-used was the billet servo piston and the trans cooler. I couldn't get much more detail than "every single component is ruined". He did list the components that were ruined, and showed them to me when I went there, but I couldn't really make sense of them other than "The reason every gear was neutral is the filter is full of broken transmission pieces"

Given no-one else has reported a MV shift kit actually dying, I suspect this is more to do with it not getting enough line pressure from the stock R34 N/A TCU, or a lesser design in the N/A transmission as opposed to MV's actual work.

[Kane_R32]

Hey guys just read the majority of this thread and just hoping to get some clarity:

R33 1.5 auto..

1) can you run a plug n play type aftermarket ecu? (power fc/adaprtonic) and not have trans issues? If there are issues how are they over come (would love a type 6 nistune)?

2)I'm wanting 230-260rwkw (HG highflow/740cc/pump etc) is it just a stage 2 shift kit needed? I was advised to ask for a upgraded second gear solenoid also??

Cheers guys hope they aren't too noobish questions hahaha

[scotty nm35]

Yes, if you manualize the auto.

A shift kit should see you to around 300kw. Any more will require a built auto.

[Kane_R32]

Sweet thanks for clearing that up for me Scott!

[Kinkstaah]

Figured I'd post up my dyno sheet here as I (scotty) finally got the car up and running again.

Trent @ Chequered had to actually not go WOT until 4500 RPM as the spike was causing his dyno to shut down, so I suppose it's marginally more responsive than this would otherwise indicate.

My transmission info is a couple pages up. Its fully controllable in pretty much everything, and the steering wheel buttons are fun to use and pretty much the only way I drive the car around.

As for the engine, it is a RB28 (Brian Crower) with some Custom JE pistons that are relatively low compression (about 8.3), with Tomei Type B 260 Degree cams. Turbo is a GTX3076. (.82)

It has a stock airbox and snorkel, K&N filter, 3in exhaust, stock exhaust manifold, stock intake manifold, and a return flow 600x266x72mm intercooler.

It is externally gated, though - That said, it isn't actually venting very much/at all at 4000rpm, but does actuate a bit more afterwards. The gate itself is mounted on the exhaust housing. This is on E85.

It's possible to have a good result with an auto! Whether it's worth it though.. kind of remains to be seen.

[Adz2332]

can a rb25 auto box have the  Manual valve boy fitted to them?

[Kinkstaah]

I posted in your other thread re: Developments (same box!) since I posted in this thread in 2014.

[BundyBear]

R33 series 1 sedan. Manual shell converted to auto.
S2 rb25det, 555cc side feed inj, precision 5858 (18psi atm), freedy ffp, 3" stainless turbo back (steel dump). Running an adaprtonic 420d piggyback. Running a 4.1 limmo. Head gasket and studs still stock for now!
Auto was apparently built when i got it but no idea what (if anything) was done but 3 months on the road and still going so maybe it has had work done!
Havnt done a qtr yet but expecting mid 12s?
Lovn the auto but really needs a higher stally to get of the line better..maybe a transbreak to lol

[V28VX37]

R33 series 1 sedan. Manual shell converted to auto.
S2 rb25det, 555cc side feed inj, precision 5858 (18psi atm), freedy ffp, 3" stainless turbo back (steel dump). Running an adaprtonic 420d piggyback. Running a 4.1 limmo. Head gasket and studs still stock for now!
Auto was apparently built when i got it but no idea what (if anything) was done but 3 months on the road and still going so maybe it has had work done!
Havnt done a qtr yet but expecting mid 12s?
Lovn the auto but really needs a higher stally to get of the line better..maybe a transbreak to lol

I ran pretty much exactly the same power through my stock 34 auto and then it started slipping. Also with a bigger turbo but standard stall it was basically never on boost and felt laggy as. Ended up converting to manual but built auto like Greg's is a good option too.

[BundyBear]

I ran pretty much exactly the same power through my stock 34 auto and then it started slipping. Also with a bigger turbo but standard stall it was basically never on boost and felt laggy as. Ended up converting to manual but built auto like Greg's is a good option too.

Mines on boost around 3500. Bugger all lag but first to second shift is a little slow (always has been) unless i peddal it a bit then it shifts fine.
Ive also got a s2 stag (34 gtt running gear) thats running 240kw and box is slipping, shifting slow and droppimg into limp mode...sujjests to me the 01a box is stronger than the 01b??
Both boxes have run penrite 10 10ths

[Kinkstaah]

The problems I found was that there's also no off the shelf option for a flex plate behind a R34. You will snap yours and the stock design is fkin awful.

 

Here's a photo of mine:

 

I've gone full retard with my setup as described before, standalone ECU (for shift maps, you can make shifts nice down low... and harsh up top), have dual maps for when the car is in "D" and when it is in manual mode, etc. Upgraded TC which is the last thing you want, because it has to match everything else. Twin coolers, fans controlled in the cabin etc, gauge for temp. There's quite a lot of things that you need to do... all essentially to match the performance of the manual box which comes with most of these cars for $0.

 

Sure, it does bring a turbo on much faster and you can stall it up, great for drag, but on ANY road tyre it = smoke extreme, making some beg the question of how useful it all really is given that application. That said, on the track it was pretty nice to just twitch a thumb and shift up/down coming out/into corners. I also had it remarked on me that a car behind me running the same power really noticed the benefit of the auto box, because of the WIIIIIDE powerband up top vs the time lost by shifting manually, revving back up to peak power even though both cars were running ~320kw at the time.

 

My dyno sheet looks like this now:

 

The guys who built mine (DTM autos in Geelong) mentioned that the NA box that I got built up from MV Autos, supposedly the 1a box, with solenoids was a completely different beast internally to the 1b box. They pretty much spat all over the 1a box which had been reduced to bits of gunk that was clogging its own filter... at about 250kw, after being built. The one above has been taking abuse for years and years (and a LOT of abuse) and for all the things I've broken, it hasn't been the box, as much as I am OFTEN told how horrible an automatic gearbox is by everyone around me.

[BundyBear]

So maybe my stags box voped a hiding before i got it??. The stag got a new filter and fluid (3 changes infact) when i got it cause it was slow to shift up to 2nd. Was hopeing it just needed a service but its gone down hill the last yr with mostly driving the kids around but every sau cruse sees it get worse (not flogged but driven spirited) the 33s box has stayed the same and coped a hiding. Its veen sujested i try transmac Z in the 33 amd see gow it goes...my mate runs it at 300kw ànd has done for a while but hes also had a lot done to the box in his

[jet_r31]

Mvs did make a upgraded flexplate for the R34 auto on a changeover basis, but theres more than one flexplate that R34's/stags come with aswell...

theres the pissweak one  and a better one which was in my old c34..

cheers

darren

[Kinkstaah]

14 hours ago, jet_r31 said:

Mvs did make a upgraded flexplate for the R34 auto on a changeover basis, but theres more than one flexplate that R34's/stags come with aswell...

theres the pissweak one  and a better one which was in my old c34..

cheers

darren

When I called them recently..ish (with the problem specified) they no longer do this. Infact mike himself said he "had no interest in ever doing it again" and the one he did do in 2008 or something was a one-off.. though apparently the answer is a VL flex plate with a RB25 ring gear and that will do the job, or something similar to that. I don't know the lingo or what really comprises of it as my desire was "yes I'd like there to be 100% less cracks in it"

[jet_r31]

He was selling them in april 2015 still...

I would  have thought that all rb starters are the same?, so ring gear would be same, but flexplate would be different as the mounting points for converter

would be different? If you could use a vl flexplate, you would just use a yella terra billet job like i have in my vl..

cheers

darren

Edited October 27, 2016 by jet_r31