So I've Just Tuned The Car.

[justinfox]

Hi all,

I recently rebuilt the motor and went for quality products:

HKS GT-SS turbos

HKS Conrods

HKS Pistons

HKS actuators

HKS exhaust manifolds

HKS dump pipes

HKS front pipes

HKS intercooler piping kit

HKS spark plugs

HKS fuel pump

Nismo fuel regulator

Nismo 555cc injectors

Nismo racing thermostat

Nissan N1 oil pump

Trust/Greddy heavy duty timing belt

Apexi power intake kit

PWR aluminium radiator

PWR intercooler

Tomei metal head gasket

Tomei poncams

I'm not after a massive horsepower street machine. I sold the 2530's as I found them too laggy on track. It's a track car primarily and I need a lot of response and power down low/mid for coming out of corners. Power at the redline's no use to me.

I got 250kw at all 4's on the dyno at 1.4bar of boost. Tuner says it's a very very conservative and safe tune and absolutely zero knocking.

I've seen many people on these forums get 250kw with a dead stock internals and turbos!!! I'm just wondering what you guys think of this. I've put so much cash into this, and 250kw seems to be a little low, but I'm not sure. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[govich]

1.4bar sounds like a lot of boost for 250awkw, though makes sense if it is really a conservative, safe tune with zero knock. You have to remember that stock cars with 250awkw probably don't have long to live - yours will be fine for a long time as it's been built properly with all supporting mods covered and strong internals.

[SECURITY]

I got 250kw at all 4's on the dyno at 1.4bar of boost. Tuner says it's a very very conservative and safe tune and absolutely zero knocking.

you've answered your own question.

[Abo Bob]

I think the problem is that you have too many pistons and too many conrods. It's crowded in there!

No but seriously, which type poncams?

Whose dyno?

Dyno graph please, preferably showing boost, afr's and power.

Sounds like your missing 50kw to me.

Oh and do you have cam gears on there that you forgot to mention and if so what are they set to?

[R31Nismoid]

No cam gears is a sin

Im surprised you spent the $$$$ on HKS rods... the stockers are good for 450rwkw.

But yeah, your missin around 50rwkw, but if the tune is super rich, then you kinda answered ur own question as already stated

[Roy]

Internals dont really give you power. So cams and turbos are about the only things that will givce you power. That said for that boost level i would sure be hoping its a low reading dyno. As even with all the good internals its a lot of boost to be running only to be makign that sort of power.

Also, you have all those mods for reliability/strength. Did you modify the R32 cranks oil drive to run the N1 oil pump?

The shopping list looks great, it just seems to be missing something...and in my books a 1.4bar tune is not conservative for that power. Surely you are better of getting the fueling and ignition better sorted and running less boost forthe same power.

Is it the same tuner as was responsible for the tune with the 2530s? Its possible thats the problem. Its makign power from boost, not form accurate control of fuel and ignition?????

[justinfox]

Yes have cam gears, poncams are type-B, yes it's a low reading dyno (dead stock EVO 6.5 reads 143.kw).

Dyno is at IS Motor Racing. Indy is my mechanic and tuner I'll be posting up the dyno graph ASAP.

[Beer Baron]

perhaps look at getting it run on another dyno too see what's up?

my 32 with stock cams, stock injectors, stock AFMs, stock turbos (i think), stock intercooler, stock dump pipes is currently making 267kw atrw. Had 270 but added a little extra fuel up top for some extra safety. it's only running 1bar boost. 250kw with all that gear, and 1.4bar should be up around 300kw + even with a very conservative tune.

[justinfox]

Yep. My gut says that something's not quite right. Not with the set-up, perhaps more with the tune. If I get someone else to tune the car I potentially might void any sort of warranty I have on the engine. I'll have to look into this.

Having said all that, and having read up on similar set-ups. I'd say I am missing about 50kw. Having 50 more and still a very safe and conservative tune should be possible.

[justinfox]

Quick question then guys, what's an acceptable knocking level?

[Roy]

If you are running a Pfc then the knock level also picks up mechanical noise/piston slap etc etc. Still a fresh motor, i hope it wouldnt get a knock reading over 50, as my std motor doesnt even knock over 50. I know of some motors that dont go over 20.

If they are listening for pinging then id say none is the only acceptable answer.

And i wouldnt be too worried about getting a "safe and reliable" tune. I would think you have spent the money on good internals, good turbos, good cooling, then they should be able to just tune the motor well to make the power it makes. That means they shouldnt be too worried about throwing extra fuel at it, retarding timing etc...It doesnt make sense to, the components you have are rated well above whatever the turbos can ever deliver.

I once had a conservative tune. It was a dog off boost, it used lots of fuel and it ran hot. Turns out the ignition may have been retarded so much that when the exhaust valves were opening the burn was still going, throwing a lot of heat into the water jackets. Got a "good" tune with good a/fs, i assume its healthy amounts of timing as the thing drives really well off boost and it makes more power, runs cooler and uses less fuel. Im guessign it would have also been more responsive but i changed exhaust housings at the same time so cant say for sure. And has been reliable for a number of years now.

[Beer Baron]

anything under 30 should not worry you. aiming for zero reading on the controller is a bit nuts and could well be impossible. before getting anyone else to tune it, i would just run it up on someone elses dyno and have them take a peak at the tune. that shouldn't affect the warranty.

give race solutions a try.

[2BNVS]

it could be running alot richer to make it safer since u mention u recently got it built, so it hasnt full been run in yet?

just a thought

ben...

[gtr fan]

My 32 gtr just has power fc, exhaust (including front pipes) 550cc in jectors and runs 1 bar. it puts out 224kw at all 4 wheels and on a different dyno 253kw at the rears. When it was being tuned the knock level stayed under 11, however on one occassion in over three years my check engine light did flash at me a few times going through mount white in COLD foggy weather.

[Roy]

Actually, i have seen photos you have posted of your car. I think your car is too far gone for help. Best give it to me now....

Stick with it, i have now been for a few rides in GTRs running GT-SS setups and they are truly awesome...you just need to get it sorted

[shonen]

Justin usually on the PFCs the engine checklight flashes 3 times to indicated knock over 60.

As Roy said the PFC picks up other "noise" as well so for me as long as I dont see that engine checklight flashing three times im not too worried about knock levels and so far so good...touch wood.

I go to the same tuner as Beer Baron goes to....or should that be the other way around cause I went to him first hehehe

But yeah I understand your situation with the warranty and all but if you are keen on trying another tuner than try Hitman.

His real name is Matt and he works with his brother in law Maroun at Race Solutions in Penrith.

0417 259 391 (Matts mobile)

[Links]

Indy is meant to be pretty good with cars from what i've heard and has some good experience from O/S which he has brought with him.. I believe he has a skyline as well? is that correct.. completely diverging here.. however I know some people who swear by him..

Does seem low - maybe ask him to retune it to be "less conservative".. got a Dyno graph we can have a peak at?

[justinfox]

Indy's a great mechanic. He's helped be to build my car and what we've always gone for is longevity. A bullet proof engine. I am sure 250awkw would be great on the circuit for years to come. It's what my car's made for.

I've talked to Indy and we're going to do another map on the Power FC next week. We're hitting 300 this time, all good. It won't be as "safe" as the 250 set-up but that's to be expected I suppose.

Thanks for all the input guys. Much appreciated. Very glad to have these forums around.