HKS Turbo's vs Garrett Turbo's...

[GiJOr33]

Is there that big a difference that HKS is worth $2000+ more?

Has anyone had a Garrett Turbo on, such as a GT3040, and then on the same car swapped it for a HKS GT3040? What was the difference in spool time, power delivery and max power...

I just can't see how there is such a big difference in price! Is it just the name you are paying for?

Any comments would be sweet, especially from those with experience with the two

Cheers,

Andrew

[burt]

From what ive read, HKS put out alot more then garrets, how much more I dont know, but the name is probably included in the price too

[kwazza11]

to my understanding HKS put thier own exhaust housings on the gt2535 and possibly bigger turbine. this is going from what a guy at ATS here in adelaide told me.

Karlos

[APA]

garrett make hks turbines, to hks specifications, hence why u are paying more not mainly for the name, but mostly because you cannot buy a exact copy of a hks turbo because garrett is comitted to not letting that information out, much the same as IHI is to Apexi etc. garrett turbos are made to garrett specs

hope that helps ya

adrian

[SLY33]

i was speaking to a dude at a tuning garage here in adelaide just today about this! He told me that while top end power of the garret vs HKS will be in the same ball park for similar turbos, apparently the HKS have far better response and make the power earlier.

dont have any experience personally, sorry!

[WHITE R32]

you pay for the name hks...personally id rather go garret for name and price and availability of parts.......a garret turbo with the same specs will make same power etc ...... its the name.....i have a 1000 hp ta51 beside me its a garret......mader well over 700 flywheel hp @ 20 psi on a 6 cylinder 200 x flow ford.....im gonna go garret.....

[Munro]

It would be interesting to get to the bottom of this.I know lots of people confused over the HKS/Garrett argument. I do know that the HKS turbos are designed to be more efficient at high boost pressures, but ultimately what we really need is back to back dyno comparisons for each main type - easier said than done - but would make a very interesting read & clear up the confusion.

I have used HKS 2540 & HKS 2835R turbos, & found them to be excellent, but dont think there are equivelent Garretts to test against.The 3040 test would be good - anyone got a spare one?

[«Cyph3r»]

It says on the HKS turbos POWER & RESPONSE and that is what they give... for example HKS GT3037s vs Garret GT3040... the 3037s spools quicker and can also handle more power than the garret equivalent. HKS put a lot of money into R&D of their parts which is why they are so succesfull. If you can afford to definately buy the HKS item over the Garret. PS HKS test turbos are designed to run at up to 2.5bar

:Pimp:

[WHITE R32]

the way i see this is that the HKS turbos are specificaly designed for sports cars and the garret mostly originated from trucks which says to me that hks turbos are usually a good volt on solid power source but the garret u have to fiddle with a/r ratios a little and comp sizes etc to get it right for your car and application..... i do not see any reason why either turbo in the same specs will give BETTER RESPONSE or POWER just because it says garret or hks on the side...... its all about research and development which hks do alot of to suit the cars they are intended for but you yourself can save thousands and do a little R&D yourself and still get the same results.......this is what i was told when my turbo guy and i had a chat on the subject a few months back and he is the manager of his area........

[Sydneykid]

Hi GiJOr33, The difficulty I personally have with the HKS turbos is that they are almost twice as expensive as the Garret they are based on. For example I recently set up an RB25DET on the circuit with a GT28BB and it definitely had all of its claimed 380 BHP. And it spooled up at 3,000 rpm and had good throttle response. The turbo cost $2,750 brand new from GCG, in comparison the HKS2540 would be $4,790 brand new. Simply put, in my opinion they are not worth the $2,040 extra.

My philosophy is that I like to run as low a boost as I can, as long as I can get the required airflow to make the horsepower target. The HKS requested modifications to the Garret design are aimed at making them more efficient at high boost, over 2 bar in some cases. This is the wrong way round for me, I would want them to do mods so that they produce more airflow at lower boost.

With a Garrett I can get a compressor flow map and work out exactly what everyone finds very difficult to find for HKS, because they don't publish them.

Hope that helps.

OK here's the challenge........... anybody been to a HKS factory that makes their turbos? Know anybody who has? Seen a magazine article with pictures of the HKS turbo assembly room? All I have ever seen is turbos in boxes on shelves in a warehouse, nobody there actually making or designing a turbo.

[Freebaggin]

Gotta agree with your last point SydneyKid, Garret are part of a large multinational corp, Honeywell in fact, and are heavily involved with the Le Mans sports car category, with Audi I think. They do the real R&D.

All HKS do in terms of "R&D" is just mix and match off-the shelf wheels and housings. The local turbo shops can do that just as well or better I reckon, and you pay 1/2 the price.

[Warpspeed]

Yeah, Garret are in the mass produced turbocharger business as a multinational corporation. They do not want to know anything about hot rodding, or do it yourself car modification out in the back shed.

What Garrett do is supply very large numbers of turbos to the car and truck manufacturers for their own new vehicle assembly plants. So every turbo they make is for a specific engine of some other manufacturer.

So when you buy a GT17, or a GT25 Garrett turbo, it is almost certainly a standard turbo off a Saab, or some Volvo, or Ford product, or who knows what else?

Now these standard turbos that are available come with certain combinations of wheel trims and housings, and will probably work fine on your engine, just as they are. But they might also just as easily be off some strange marine diesel application that might work very well, or it might not.

So HKS have set themselves up to order vast numbers of Garrett turbos to the HKS specification, whatever that is. So HKS turbos are just really Garrett turbos with the HKS name.

So as has already been said, the local turbo shops know what works, and what is required, and can either order in the right Garrett GT turbo, or modify one with Garrett spare parts at a fraction of the cost of a genuine HKS.

There is no reason why you could not get a genuine HKS turbo, identify the parts, and modify the closest Garret to be EXACTLY the same.

[kwazza11]

so the question is, you can get second hand HKS gt2535's for $1500, are the Garret equivelants cheaper? and would you take the HKS over the Garret if there was only a few hundred dollars difference?

Karlos

[Warpspeed]

If I had a chice between a brand new Garrett, and an old HKS that was probably rooted, and they were the same price ?

Silly question really.

[kwazza11]

i mean second hand for both... think about it.

[Damon]

I visited HKS Japan in January and had a complete shop tour of their manufacturuing facilities around Mt Fuji. While I can vouch for their exhausts, camshafts, pistons etc. all being built in Japan 'in-house', I of course didn't see any turbo manufacturing facilities because their turbos are all made by Garrett.

I was very impressed by what I saw, but unfortunately they wouldn't allow me to take any photos of their manufacturing at any time.

Damon Dupriez

Auto Salon Magazine

[Sumo]

Top read fella's, this is an awesome thread

Sumo

[JimX]

The biggest thing going for Garrett as already mentioned is the price. With HKS turbos you are paying for the research and development as well as the name. They are very good turbos, and if you have money to throw around then they are probably preferable. Unless you have an expert like Sydneykid around to help design you a good Garrett spec I guess.

I swear by my Garrett T04E. It is a sleeve bearing turbo, which means that a rebuild is only $350 instead of $1000+. It's not even a new design by a long shot, but it still has the goods. If someone wanted to swap me for a brand new HKS of around the same spec I would gladly do it, but I'm not pining for a HKS turbo and I don't think I'll ever upgrade to one unless it's very cheap. The usual required $2k+ upgrade cost could be better spent elsewhere.

The weakness in my turbo (and I presume all similar Garretts) is the wastegate. They aren't designed for high boost high power applications (>14psi), and according to Mark at Hills Motorsports I'm getting wastegate creep at higher revs. Once I get the wastegate replaced I should be able to get the same power output at lower boost. Actually I should have tried a dyno run yesterday at lower boost. might have still gotten the same top-end power.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Jimx, I don't think it's the wastegate that's the problem. The wastegate actuator is a more likely suspect. There is only so much air that can be bled off, regardless of the type of boost controller. We always set the minimum amount of boost with the wastegate actuator spring and then bleed off for boost levels above that.

Hope that helps

[JimX]

Sydneykid, that sounds possible, Mark was talking about the EBC working hard at high boost so perhaps he was talking about the actuator (I might have misheard or misunderstood what he said).

What do you think I should do with it? Can you buy just the actuator part, and if so, where from and what do I get exactly?