R33 Rb30 Conversion

[Scooby]

hey buddy,

i'm running N1's for the first little while and then changing to GTRS's. What i've done is jsut t-pieced the lines into the single line on the block

i would grab some pics for ya, but the motors currently in the car for the dry sump and exhaust fab

Hi R32 TT I'm doing the same as Shanef. Cannot comment on performance ''in service'' but it was suggested by a very good workshop with RB26/30 experience who made the fittings. What are you doing for an adapter plate and pickup?

[R32 TT]

Hi R32 TT I'm doing the same as Shanef. Cannot comment on performance ''in service'' but it was suggested by a very good workshop with RB26/30 experience who made the fittings. What are you doing for an adapter plate and pickup?

Cheers for that guys. I am running a Performance Metalcraft Sump and a 10mm adaptor plate via SK..

My workshop have decided they're going to pull the sump back off though, weld on a couple of dash 10 fittings and run from the Turbos back to those individually... Or, if the room is tight, we may use the oil return on the side of the block, and just one fitting on the sump... they're a bit worried that it may 'back up' after a few hard laps at the circuit..

Here you can see there is only one oil return on the block (of course). And also you can see the oil return from the back of the head. I figure I may have to fit a couple of more fittings to the sump, just behind the head return line...

Geez you guys are running N1's to begin with? They're going to spool ~damn~ quick I bet !

[TommO]

A quick question for you guys.. I've done a search but couldn't find much information.

A R33 i'm looking at that's for sale has a half buggered motor (has been running stock bottom end, 280rwkw via a 2835ProS for a couple of years). For a price, he's offered to purchase a Proengine 3L bottom end (~$5.9k), and get UAS to fit the motor (~$3k). It would be very responsive with that turbo, I reckon it would be a lot of fun to drive.. although that turbo would max out at ~300rwkw I so, but that's still OK by me. I want a quick street car and nothing more.

ANYWAY.. what's the reliability on this setup going to be like? I know with the factory bottom end, they are normally great.. is getting work like this done and the end power figure going to turn a car into something I always have to fix / repair?? Or are they pretty reliable? I realise the driveline is pretty tough. I need a car that can do 20,000kms a year, take a hammering once in a while, and be reliable. Am I dreaming? For some reason I naturally think cars with rebuilt motors are rarely as reliable.

Edited May 1, 2007 by TommO

[CEF11E]

Phewww..

this is a long read.

After thinking about it I have deceded to do a budget RB30 buildup to put in my R32. I have some things i need clearing up before i buy the parts.

I am going to use the following

RB30E series 2 block with standard pistons, rods, crank

RB25DE head from an R32 frontcut (non VCT)

This should give me a compression ratio of around 8.3:1 from what I have been reading.

The other bits going in the build are:

RB25 sliding performance hiflow

splitfire coilpacks

stock manifolds from RB20

all ancelleries from RB20

FMiC

GTR injectors

RB20ECU remapped

Z32 AFM

I know the turbo is really a bit small for the RB30det and it will only nudge 250rwkw. that's fine with me its the torque i am after and I am a bit sick of revving the guts out of the rb 20.

Things I need to know:

1. The turbo is designed to run 18psi. is this boost pressure to high? I think it should be fine as the static comp of the RB20 is higher and I corrently run the same PSI on it. The last thing I want is to build it to find out it will not like running high PSI Of course I will be upgrading the valve springs to at least RB20 Items.

2. Will the Cefiro cross member allow the engine to sit low enough to close the bonnet? I do not want to have engine mounts fabbed if i can avoid it.

I will be putting the motor in myself but will be having all the assembly done by an engine builder.

[paulr33]

the other bits going in the build are:

RB25 sliding performance hiflow

1. The turbo is designed to run 18psi. is this boost pressure to high? I think it should be fine as the static comp of the RB20 is higher and I corrently run the same PSI on it. The last thing I want is to build it to find out it will not like running high PSI Of course I will be upgrading the valve springs to at least RB20 Items.

the turbo is too small, with stock diff gears 4.11 it will nose over very early and run out of puff

it will probably come on too early as well. i suggest you look into a larger housing, something that will give linear response

18psi is only relevant to how much exhaust gas the engine flows. 18psi on an rb20 and 18psi on an rb30 are completely different things

[Scooby]

A quick question for you guys.. I've done a search but couldn't find much information.

A R33 i'm looking at that's for sale has a half buggered motor (has been running stock bottom end, 280rwkw via a 2835ProS for a couple of years). For a price, he's offered to purchase a Proengine 3L bottom end (~$5.9k), and get UAS to fit the motor (~$3k). It would be very responsive with that turbo, I reckon it would be a lot of fun to drive.. although that turbo would max out at ~300rwkw I so, but that's still OK by me. I want a quick street car and nothing more.

ANYWAY.. what's the reliability on this setup going to be like? I know with the factory bottom end, they are normally great.. is getting work like this done and the end power figure going to turn a car into something I always have to fix / repair?? Or are they pretty reliable? I realise the driveline is pretty tough. I need a car that can do 20,000kms a year, take a hammering once in a while, and be reliable. Am I dreaming? For some reason I naturally think cars with rebuilt motors are rarely as reliable.

i hope the 5.9K rebuild incudes all the good bits ie forgies otherwise it's an expensive build. ditto the $3K to fit, i hope that at least includes a tune. 300rwkw is quite a bit to handle in a 2wd car and probably over the limit on stock internals, not sure from your post if you're using stock or forged. either way, the reliability comes down to workmanship and tuning (ie workmanship) as there is no reason why the thing should break if done properly. Cubes has done 50K km plus with no issues. if you have a problem with rebuilt motors that's understandable given some of the stories floating around but it's also what people do with their rebuilt motors that's the problem.

[Scooby]

Cheers for that guys. I am running a Performance Metalcraft Sump and a 10mm adaptor plate via SK..

My workshop have decided they're going to pull the sump back off though, weld on a couple of dash 10 fittings and run from the Turbos back to those individually... Or, if the room is tight, we may use the oil return on the side of the block, and just one fitting on the sump... they're a bit worried that it may 'back up' after a few hard laps at the circuit..

Here you can see there is only one oil return on the block (of course). And also you can see the oil return from the back of the head. I figure I may have to fit a couple of more fittings to the sump, just behind the head return line...

Geez you guys are running N1's to begin with? They're going to spool ~damn~ quick I bet !

Yes the N1s are going to be interesting. What turbos are you using? Make sure that the oil return from the head points downwards all the way - as much as possible - as it's only gravity feed. Looks like it snakes upwards a little in the pic but it's probably just that way for the photo.

Cheers

[fr0st]

Whats everyones thoughts on o-rings + standard gasket vs a metal head gasket?

Just got quoted $300 to get o-rings put in, I could probably get a metal head gasket with built in rings for near that

[sky30]

This should give me a compression ratio of around 8.3:1 from what I have been reading.

From what ive worked out lately, its more like 7.9- 8.0:1.

[TommO]

Thanks Scooby. For that price, it includes forgies

[mr_rbman]

Phewww..

this is a long read.

After thinking about it I have deceded to do a budget RB30 buildup to put in my R32. I have some things i need clearing up before i buy the parts.

I am going to use the following

RB30E series 2 block with standard pistons, rods, crank

RB25DE head from an R32 frontcut (non VCT)

This should give me a compression ratio of around 8.3:1 from what I have been reading.

The other bits going in the build are:

RB25 sliding performance hiflow

splitfire coilpacks

stock manifolds from RB20

all ancelleries from RB20

FMiC

GTR injectors

RB20ECU remapped

Z32 AFM

I know the turbo is really a bit small for the RB30det and it will only nudge 250rwkw. that's fine with me its the torque i am after and I am a bit sick of revving the guts out of the rb 20.

Things I need to know:

1. The turbo is designed to run 18psi. is this boost pressure to high? I think it should be fine as the static comp of the RB20 is higher and I corrently run the same PSI on it. The last thing I want is to build it to find out it will not like running high PSI Of course I will be upgrading the valve springs to at least RB20 Items.

2. Will the Cefiro cross member allow the engine to sit low enough to close the bonnet? I do not want to have engine mounts fabbed if i can avoid it.

I will be putting the motor in myself but will be having all the assembly done by an engine builder.

1.) The boost will not be too high, rb20 valve springs aren't really an upgrade on the 25de ones, so find yourself some GTR ones.

2.) I haven't heard of anyone using the cefiro crossmember to lower the engine, if your using standard plenum you are going to have to lower the engine mounts, one of them i a simple redrill but the other one is a little tougher!

Edited May 2, 2007 by mr_rbman

[Cubes]

CEF11E,

Your going to be one of the first I know of doing this in a Ceffy so please do report back to how much it lowers the motor by.

I would be very interested as the subframes 'may' be interchangable. Possibly an option for the R32 GTR/GTS4 girlies who have problems controlling wheelspin with their right foot.

The turbo will be fine with the stock exh and plenum setup as without working on the inlet/exh. the rb30det's tend not to rev past 7000rpm too well anyway. It will pull nicely to 6500rpm ish.

[VHR32]

He says he has a R32 Cubes! I think he was thinking about using a Cefiro crossmember to see if it lowers the engine.

[Cubes]

lol yes...

[Al]

CEF11E,

Your going to be one of the first I know of doing this in a Ceffy so please do report back to how much it lowers the motor by.

I would be very interested as the subframes 'may' be interchangable. Possibly an option for the R32 GTR/GTS4 girlies who have problems controlling wheelspin with their right foot.

The turbo will be fine with the stock exh and plenum setup as without working on the inlet/exh. the rb30det's tend not to rev past 7000rpm too well anyway. It will pull nicely to 6500rpm ish.

I was told that my exsisting HKS GTRS would choke the engine at about 5500rpm, thus power will plummit after that; wouldn't a hi-flow be more restrictive? Maybe adapting the VG30/NEO25 turbo ext housing will help the issue a little?

[Cubes]

On the dyno it will nose over but on the road it will feel 'ok' to rev to 6000-6500rpm.

With the stock exh. manifold and inlet it won't be making a great deal more power past 5500-6000rpm anyway.

Soooo select a turbo that will provide the most area under the curve under 5500-6000rpm.

Bolt a GT35r on with the stock exh. and inlet and you end up with a rather peaky motor that has a small power band.

From the results I've seen over the years I really do think if your running a stock inlet and exh. manifold you really are best of with a turbo no bigger than a GT30 as you simply don't have the rev's to make the most of the larger turbo.

[Al]

So you think i need an exhaust manifold?

I have previously PM'ed you my other mods and the exhaust manifold is really the only std part that may restrict air-flow. I hope to have a 8k rev limiter, but will set it to 7200 for 99% of the time. My std ext manifold has been match ported to the head and also ported where it meets the turbo.

I do not want to cap my limiter to 6500rpm as i think this will effect my track speed.

[R31Nismoid]

You wont get much of a gain from port matching the manifold in terms of how much the manifold itself is posing a restricton.

Porting either end doesnt get around the runners not flowing and its design, which isnt for 3ltrs of flow in big RPM

You wont need to "cap" it as such, it will just stop making power.

But that wont matter as you just grab another gear if you know when its going to do this

Its basically like an RB26 with GT-SS really. Not a special top end, but a honking low-mid range.

Soon as you know it noses over, just grab the next gear and away you go. There isnt a need to take the motor to its RPM limit each time.

Good thing about early power like that is you might be able to stay in a gear rather than requiring a downshit.

If you need 8000rpm on a 30DET, you might aswell have a GT42 or something on there as no turbo should need that much on a 30DET unless its BIG

[Al]

But more rpm can mean a greater spread of power.

ie: instead of having a power band 3500rpm wide, i am hoping for a band 4500rpm wide.

It's all about having a greater average/usable power; not interested in peak power. So you think my manifold will restrict flow, thus capping usable rpm.

The turbo is definately a GT30R-IW

[R31Nismoid]

Indeed. But if you have a turbo thats making power @ 8000rpm, i'll be surprised.

A GT30 will have nosed over well and truly by 7500rpm you'll find. Possibly even 7000rpm.

I'd see how you go first to be honest.

It wont cap it as such, you'll still be able to rev it. It just wont make more power and will drop off.

Sometimes fast, sometimes not too bad