Fixed Speed Cameras

[Atomic Playboy]

perhaps some of the businesses who do well from the car enthusiast market should fund bill board advertisements saying fixed speed camera in this area and put them up near where the cameras are.

...in a perfect world

Edited December 14, 2007 by Atomic Playboy

[Vermin]

well i guess if they issue fines for 1km/h over the speed limit then a few regular rolling blockades at 10km/h during rush hour would get them to think about it. then again if they could think we would never be having these posts anyway

[Dantay]

i give it less then a month before the Burpengary one is attacked by an angry commy driver.

[IanB]

I want GPS coordinates for them all...

Also does anyone have more info on these 1km/h tolerances? Its not that i wouldn't believe it, but 1 km/h is a bit gestapo, I guess I just want to see it for myself, and all google is giving me is more forum talk about it, no solid quotes... I am woundering if its just the transport minister using scare-tactics?

[Col-GTSX]

i give it less then a month before the Burpengary one is attacked by an angry commy driver.

It will probablly get burnt (petrol bombed) within a week

[Dantay]

It will probablly get burnt (petrol bombed) within a week

its only fair, who builds a purpose built 3 lane fast way then puts a farken camera on it....in 15yrs living here i have never ever seen a crash on that stretch not one since the old bay brige was built

[Col-GTSX]

I think we all know the answer to that statement...

They wanta make money from it...

[IanB]

more info on the 1 km/h statements? Are you all sure they dont just mean its accurate to within 1 km/h?

The lidar guns are accurate to 2 km/h as are the mobile vans, and in dash are 2km/h stationary and 3km/h moving, but they dont ping until higher speeds?

[GTRgeoff]

Guys, the best defence will be to just drag it to the courts whenever you get a fine. I know their equipment is not calibrated IAW the National Measurements Act 1960 and all you have to do is prove reasonable doubt and no Court in their right mind could find you guilty. It may cost a few bucks and some time off but it is easy if you get the info from the Aussie speeding fines website. Their equipment might test in perfect conditions in a lab to be as accurate as stated but simple operator errors and false returns will make them wildly inaccurate. I used a LIDAR that measured a speed sign 38m away as being 67m. They are handheld ones that are wildly inaccurate at over 70m due to hand shake and the large beam width which is 1m wide at 100m so it just needs to pick up other returns and a false will read.

Imagine our courts if they are filled with low range speeding offenders sending a message? No real crimes could be dealt with.

[CanberraR33]

Has anyone got the GPS co-ords worked out yet?

[IanB]

They stick out like a dogs balls. Not only that, but the marker lines that you drive over are very visable. Id say they are a good way to gauge speed in the camera, to make it very difficult to take to court - they seem to be in 50 cm incriments with every few meters marked, eg:

_

-

-

-

-

_

so when they take the photo, they can say photo taken at X time, and since detection your vehicle had moved X distance to cover X amount of lines on the road, therefore you were traveling at X speed

Which chucks the calibration arguement down the potty...

[Col-GTSX]

Yeah, they do stand out pretty well... And the signage for the burpengary one is everywhere...

There are signs that say "Speed camera ahead" about 1km out, then another set of signs that say "speed camera 24hours" and then 500m later there is the speed camera...

The markings Ian are exactlly 1m apart with a larger strike every 5m's...

They are also spread out differentlly across the 3 lanes so the camera can grab anyone from all three lanes... Their set on that angle for the cameras benifit...

As for do they work, well yesterday afternoon on my way to Morayfield a guy/girl in a little yaris went down the 3rd lane at approx 120ish while everyone else was just sitting on 98-100kph as we all read the signs approaching the speed cameras, then as the driver crossed over the lines about 100-200m in front of me his/her number plate flashed light 3 times.

So 3 photos are taken with this new speed camera system...

As Ian said with the evidence of the lines in the photos these things are going to accurate to within a 1km varience...

Now where the confusion is;

Police and the transport minister stated these units are "Accurate to within 1km per hour" meaning they are dead accurate. This did not mean you would get a fine for 101 in a 100 zone. After speaking with a good mate whos works in a un-related branch of qld police he could not confirm but he said youwill find they are set to trigger at 107kph. As this is what the mobile speed camera units operate off, their general rule of thumb is 7% tollerance at higher than 50kph and 10% tollerance at anthing lower.

He did say this is only a general rule and that this is what they set the mobile units to. So he admits he does not know for sure, but believes that the old rules would still apply in this case...

So there you go

EDIT: Now in saying that the smartest thing to do it trave along, then as you approach the camera make 100% certain your under the speed limit...

[GTRgeoff]

Actually it doesn't Ian.

What they suggest may sound good, but until they come up with proper NMA1960 Sec10 compliant certification for the timing mech or measuring component, and use something better than the MD5 algorithm to prove the image hasn't been tampered with which I'm certain they will use then the system doesn't meet basic scrutiny for evidence.

Here is an interesting condensation from some recent reading regarding state laws and the NMA compliance....

The Commonwealth Law supersedes the state law in all cases.

In 1995 a case was seen where a tool was used to measure Lobster that was undersize and a case for prosecution made. The state law said it was fine but NMA1960 said it wasn't as it hadn't been tested and certified by NATA or CSIRO, the only organisations that can, so the evidence was ruled inadmissible. Sounds like precedent to me.

So unless every piece of equipment is certified and in test then any evidence from it is inadmissible. This includes the operator.

I'm not for wholesale speeding, just against the money grab by state govts in the name of road safety.

[GTRgeoff]

Oh and I agree with Col on making sure you are under the limit when passing these piles of poo. They will make mistakes, and it helps to state you were travelling under the limit as you knew they were there in your court case. Anything to raise doubt.

Technology in never infallible.

[Dantay]

thats a good find Geoff, but MD5 sums are pretty certain i thought

[R33S2]

On speeding camera fines and the gov allowance for over the limit, I have never heard of one lower than 71 in a 60 does anyone else have one lower than that?

[hojak]

Hey guys, just spotted what seems to be a fixed speed camera on the pacific motorway around the marshal road exit out bound. It's looks like it's targeting inbound but maybe for both directions. Looks like they only just fitted it.

[murrayis]

Pretty sure there is one on the Pac Highway around marchal road but it is not active till later in the year, They mentioned one in the paper and on the tele a few weeks ago that would be active mid year

[grigor]

On speeding camera fines and the gov allowance for over the limit, I have never heard of one lower than 71 in a 60 does anyone else have one lower than that?

Yes. 65 in a 60 zone, Melbourne.

My son scored, didn't realise, and he'd gone O/S by the time it arrived, so I paid it.

Turns out his bloody hire car was set on cruise control at 60, just to be safe.

Didn't work out though.

[Simonster]

Interesting point. Qld Transport claims 14% of fatals are caused by over the limit speeding (not to be confused with under the limit speeding eg. too fast for the conditions. There is such a thing) where overseas data and our research states that it is closer to 2%. Take out the drunked and drugged, joyriders in stolen cars and the odd idiot running from the police and that figure drops drastically.

Saving lives, I don't think so.

Training is the only answer.

Yes Geof, you and i know that training is the answer, but exactly what training is the government providing? Nothing

I wouldn't mind doing a training/test course everytime i renew my license, to make sure i'm up to speed with new rules etc. if it takes a day who gives a shit. At least then we would have a go at some basic driver training.

What would it involve? That would need to be sorted out but i think a good starting point is;

dry braking in a straight line to stop before a set point

wet braking in a straight line to stop before a set point

dry braking avoiding an obstacle

wet braking avoiding an obstacle

dry, two direction changes avoiding obstacle

wet, two direction changes avoiding an obstacle

dry constant radius circle- slowly build up speed so can no longer maintain radius

wet constant radius circle

parallel park

hill start

and my absolute favourite, learning to count! Yes count people, it seems there are a number that cant count to 2 seconds- you know a good MINIMUM time to travel behind the car in front of you to gives a reasonable buffer. This costs nothing and is my pet peeve, i just laugh at cars sitting maybe 2 car-lengths behind the car in front. I have pretty good hand eye co-ordination and reaction time, but i wouldn't have a hope in hell in normal circumstances be able to avoid hitting the car in front if for some reason they decided to brake suddenly.....feel better now.

I'm sure other people would welcome the opportunity to add to what they think would be good techniques to practice.

At the end of the day, you owe it t yourself and other people on the road to be safe, capable drivers.

I'll leave you with this thought, the Air Force spends around 15 months teaching people to fly, i am involved with this. At the culmination of this lengthy and difficult training, the final check we do is ask ourselves-and this is subjective; would you be happy sending your wife and kids in a aeroplane flown by this individual?

I know i certainly wouldn't put my wife and kids in a car picked at random on the roads, because i have no idea what skills or training they might have. At least with a standard course like something outlined above, you would know that they have had at least some training before being let loose on our roads.

Flame away