Software :)

[Jetwreck]

Good work Andy and don't worry about... there are some of us that appreciate what you have done and I am sure that no-one really cares. Can't imagine why anyone would think it is problem if you took the time to read how it all developed.

+1 on this

So what does qualify a trader? If I was to have a link in my signature to a web page advertising something for someone else does that qualify me as a trader?

[Messiah]

I think it all comes down to a matter of profit.

The developer wants to be paid for his work, so Andy has paid him (assuming past tense here).

Now i assume Andy wants to recoup his expenses so he's charging per conversion.

Now heres the catch i guess, if Andy is making a profit on top of his expenses in an ongoing manner (so not a limited time like a group buy) theni guess logically he could be deemed a trader.

If he offered say... X conversion for $y each where X times Y equals out of pocket expenses, and called it a day... or released the rest free of charge on donation based, then i guess it could be deemed non-trader.

but if the Russian is charging per conversion and andy is passing the trade on, then he's and agent of a trader and therefore a trader by proxy i'd think.

That said, if russian is on the cusp of returning to communism, then all income from this conversion belongs to the state and andy must now hand over his stag to all the other peasants waiting in the queue.

[zei20l]

im pretty sure the price would go up significantly if that was the case. then he would probably just stop offering it which wouldnt be so good!

im happy to give andy my money (when i have some ) for this conversion. assuming he makes any money from it - which he may not - it is well and truly deserved!

[Jetwreck]

I think it all comes down to a matter of profit.

The developer wants to be paid for his work, so Andy has paid him (assuming past tense here).

Now i assume Andy wants to recoup his expenses so he's charging per conversion.

Now heres the catch i guess, if Andy is making a profit on top of his expenses in an ongoing manner (so not a limited time like a group buy) theni guess logically he could be deemed a trader.

If he offered say... X conversion for $y each where X times Y equals out of pocket expenses, and called it a day... or released the rest free of charge on donation based, then i guess it could be deemed non-trader.

but if the Russian is charging per conversion and andy is passing the trade on, then he's and agent of a trader and therefore a trader by proxy i'd think.

That said, if russian is on the cusp of returning to communism, then all income from this conversion belongs to the state and andy must now hand over his stag to all the other peasants waiting in the queue.

Well said....but if deemed a trader from a non profit install for the benefit of the members this would mean that SAU members alike would loose there discount would it not!

e.g X would be more expensive to cover the trader charge opening Y up for inclusion of all other charges and a possible profit for andy and his efforts as he is now a trader.

In saying my pointless this would mean that ALL people(SAU included) would be paying more....alot more.....or they can just wait for Shan to get it done for free.

BTW how you going with the translation Shan....when can we expect it!

P.S. IMO...On the Russian guy....and I know most of you don't have the S2 M35's, S2 V35's and late model Elgrand's yet but the English will be available in the future....if Shan does manage to crack the S1 conversion and put's it up for a free download and it is found to be a crack from the Russian guy's work(which I am pretty sure he will be able to work out if it comes from his work or not) I am 100% sure you can all say goodbye to the S2 English conversions.....I know if i'd done all that work only to have it cracked and posted for free from my work I'd be pretty pissed.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Jetwreck

[Stephen Thorpe]

I think we should stop debating what Andy is or isn't receiving or whether he is a trader.

It isn't important, if he makes any money I don't believe many actually care, I know I wouldn't and I am sure it isn't an instant upgrade with no time required.

He is the middle man for someone a long way away who provides a cheap (read appropriate) product.

If it wasn't for him... no-one would have the conversion.

Unless this other person comes out with his own version... and I agree let us hope it isn't a crack of the S1 version, or at the very least lets hope an effective S2 (+) version is also available.

[funkymonkey]

I'm working on the japanese Xanavi update DVD's that I bought from japan more than one way to skin a cat and all that eh?

[Chris Rogers]

I'm working on the japanese Xanavi update DVD's that I bought from japan more than one way to skin a cat and all that eh?

yep. same as I'm doing by capturing commands on a storage scope and deciphering them.

[NISMO]

I think we should stop debating what Andy is or isn't receiving or whether he is a trader.

It isn't important, if he makes any money I don't believe many actually care, I know I wouldn't and I am sure it isn't an instant upgrade with no time required.

He is the middle man for someone a long way away who provides a cheap (read appropriate) product.

If it wasn't for him... no-one would have the conversion.

Unless this other person comes out with his own version... and I agree let us hope it isn't a crack of the S1 version, or at the very least lets hope an effective S2 (+) version is also available.

re bold section above.

Unfortunately people do care.

SAU is a forum on which we have paid traders. People paying money for the right to access a target audience specific to their products. This is the one and only issue.

[Jetwreck]

SAU is a forum on which we have paid traders. People paying money for the right to access a target audience specific to their products. This is the one and only issue.

As I asked before......

So what does qualify a trader? If I was to have a link in my signature to a web page advertising something for someone else does that qualify me as a trader?

Edited May 13, 2010 by Jetwreck

[Jetwreck]

I'm working on the japanese Xanavi update DVD's that I bought from japan more than one way to skin a cat and all that eh?

Yes you are right....there is more than one way to skin a cat!!!!!!

But I have a question....you bought a DVD from Japan so that you could convert it to English for yourself and everyone charging no one a dime???

Sorry but I smell a level of BS here! It's one of two things neither of which I am prepared to bring up but I am no dummy!!!

Edited May 13, 2010 by Jetwreck

[R31Nismoid]

if deemed a trader from a non profit install for the benefit of the members this would mean that SAU members alike would loose there discount would it not!

There is profit involved - this is certainly not a non-profit scenario.

As I asked before......

So what does qualify a trader? If I was to have a link in my signature to a web page advertising something for someone else does that qualify me as a trader?

Are you selling something? Not directly, therefore no.

We have no issue with users linking to a website or whatever, couldn't care less.

However businesses having big large advertising/scrolling signagtures and so on simply won't be tolerated.

Given we have 20 or so businesses that pay good money for the right to do so, i mean afterall - the $1600/month it costs to run SAU doesn't just appear

Drumming up business via the forums (& PM's etc), well that's quite clearly a trader in the most obvious of terms.

Trader.... that is an interesting concept given the shit I have been given in this forum for trying to find a solution to a problem and making it accessible to the members of the SAU forum.

Firstly... I have never used SAU brand in conjunction with telling people about this product. It is called Xanavi.ru

I think it is very unprofessional of you to post this accusation in public forum with no basis of truth or knowledge of what I am doing. My mobile is listed in my signature and I am happy to discuss this with anyone from SAU. I can not believe you have posted this S#$t when no one from SAU has ever spoken to me about it.

Accuse first and get the truth later. If I recall correctly SAU deleted all posts on a similar basis last year when people pointed out that one of their advertisers was offering cars for sale that could not be complied in Australia.

Fact is you are using us to make money. Whether you are using the "SAU Brand" or whatever has nothing to do with it.

It's very simple.

1. Are you using SAU to make money? (via PM/threads/whatever) Yes.

2. Are you paying fee's like every other business? No.

Every other business that is trading on this site is paying... Not sure what you mean about accusations when it's the hard fact so i won't go into that.

You are trading, you are making profit, therefore trader fees are required to continue.

Nick & Myself are both flat out at present... You'll hear from one of us eventually.

[Stephen Thorpe]

mmmm

Edited May 13, 2010 by Stephen Thorpe

[Jetwreck]

We have no issue with users linking to a website or whatever, couldn't care less.

thanks for clearing that up mate....I was a little confused there.

cheers

Craig

[andy65b]

There is profit involved - this is certainly not a non-profit scenario.

Are you selling something? Not directly, therefore no.

We have no issue with users linking to a website or whatever, couldn't care less.

However businesses having big large advertising/scrolling signagtures and so on simply won't be tolerated.

Given we have 20 or so businesses that pay good money for the right to do so, i mean afterall - the $1600/month it costs to run SAU doesn't just appear

Drumming up business via the forums (& PM's etc), well that's quite clearly a trader in the most obvious of terms.

Fact is you are using us to make money. Whether you are using the "SAU Brand" or whatever has nothing to do with it.

It's very simple.

1. Are you using SAU to make money? (via PM/threads/whatever) Yes.

2. Are you paying fee's like every other business? No.

Every other business that is trading on this site is paying... Not sure what you mean about accusations when it's the hard fact so i won't go into that.

You are trading, you are making profit, therefore trader fees are required to continue.

Nick & Myself are both flat out at present... You'll hear from one of us eventually.

As you wish.

I will change my signature.

I am not sure how you think you know what the costs that are involved in doing this but who am I to question your intimate knowledge of what I do.

For some reason you seem to have decided that what I am doing is different to other people on this forum. Why? I hope you apply the same standard to all members and users advertising their business on this forum.

The only reason I do this is because people wanted it and I had to find a way so that;

1) the developer can be paid his license charge is US$.

2) cover exchange rate variations.

3) members in all states have access to the conversion.

4) the developer felt like he had some form of security.

Cheers

Andy

[R31Nismoid]

Craig - NP. Hopefully it's a bit clearer for you mate.

Andy - You are being treated no differently to anyone else that Admin picks up on.

I had no issue with your signature overall to be honest. Just everything else.

You are making a profit, you are using the forums to drum up this business... Honestly that is not much more too it.

Anyway enough in the open air, i will PM you when I've gone over all information fully.

Thus far I've only glanced at it all.

[DRIFTT]

On the conversions I have done ALL SAU MEMBERS cars I have deemed as break even jobs with some not even that, when you put into account the time it takes and some people know what I am talking about. There is the work I have to stop doing or meet people 30 minutes drive just for 30 to 45 minutes work. But if I didn’t do it this service would not be as easily available in WA at the pricing people are charged.

I have had dealers try to convince me to let them on sell it to there customers for $350 which they deem as a more accurate price for what you are getting, my view is they can jam it.

This a decision I made from the beginning so I am not having a winge I am just stating a fact!

At least it isn't a service a trained monkey can do.

[funkymonkey]

But I have a question....you bought a DVD from Japan so that you could convert it to English for yourself and everyone charging no one a dime???

Sorry but I smell a level of BS here! It's one of two things neither of which I am prepared to bring up but I am no dummy!!!

Fair question. Here's how I got to where I am now with this whole firmware project:

I was quoted $260 for menu conversion. Reading the thread I also noted that the image that popped up after the flash also contained a xanavi.ru logo in the corner, which i wasn't a fan of. Not wanting to be a sheep and just throw money at something for a solution I decided to better inform myself. Luckily my mum reads russian (go figure, apparently she went to uni in moscow for a few years in the 70's) so I got her to read over a few russian forums which had discussions on the xanavi.ru mod. Between her translation and google translate, I worked out that the original items the programmer used was the Xanavi update discs (set of 3). A quick search on GooParts in japan came up with the discs for $15. A week later an EMS express package showed up at my house with the discs.

So in effect this whole process will cost me a few weekends of spare time and roughly $30 to do. I'll have my own custom load screen with no ads for some random programmer's website, and I'll have learnt a shitload from it. Plus I'll have saved $230.

Where your BS sniffing kicked into overdrive is probably about what I decide to do with this firmware after I'm done with it. I can either monetise it, like the russian programmer... or I can just give it away so someone else might benefit too. If you think that's way too philanthropic on my part, keep in mind, I also put time into coding custom stuff for this forum, for free, to benefit you guys, and for a job I code Drupal and as per GPL rules contribute whatever custom stuff I make back to the open source community. I really have no qualms with modding some files on a CD and chucking it out on the net so people can benefit from it. I'm not doing it to put Andy out of business, to prove any point or even to win admiration among you guys. If you want it, you can use it, if you don't, I won't care one bit. As I said there are many benefits to a paid service like support and warranties that you won't get if you use my method.

It's unfortunate that my heads up to andy about becoming a trader and my update on my own project were in the same post, I can see why you guys were hasty to don your tinfoil hats.

[andy65b]

Shan

I don't know who quoted you that price but it is not the price I have recommended the installers do it for SAU members. Send me a PM of who it was please.

I have no problem weather I do 1 install on this 100. I am not doing this for the money. I have my own business that has nothing to do with cars and honestly don't mind how little time getting the conversion done takes. Despite R31Nismooids claim that I make profit from doing this I can assure you if not for my passion for the M35 would not even consider organizing the conversions.

Why I have a problem with this is the developer spent a lot of time and effort creating a solution for the series 1 V35 & M35 at the request of members from the SAU community. He has followed through and delivered what all the knockers said was not possible. He is prepared to create a solution for the V35 series 2 and the V36 but I can tell you he will have little interest in solving this problem if someone was to hack his hard work. Personally, I morally think it is the wrong thing to do this to him.

In fact Shan I believe you said in January 2009 that you would look into doing it and in the last 17months have heard nothing from you. I sorry but I do not believe your claim that it is easy and a few weekends of spare time work. This is just not consistent with all I have been told about the system. But you are the programmer , I am not.

The timing of your solution just makes me feel there is more to this than you are letting on. I guess time will tell all.

Good luck with your solution.

Andy

[funkymonkey]

I don't know who quoted you that price but it is not the price I have recommended the installers do it for SAU members. Send me a PM of who it was please.

Actually, apologies, I was told retail was $260 and SAU members got it for $200. For some reason the figure $260 stuck in my head.

Why I have a problem with this is the developer spent a lot of time and effort creating a solution for the series 1 V35 & M35 at the request of members from the SAU community. He has followed through and delivered what all the knockers said was not possible. He is prepared to create a solution for the V35 series 2 and the V36 but I can tell you he will have little interest in solving this problem if someone was to hack his hard work. Personally, I morally think it is the wrong thing to do this to him.

Read the following words very carefully... NO ONE IS HACKING HIS WORK. I don't have access to his work as anyone who uses his firmware will only do the updates in person.

I'm starting from scratch (official Xanavi update discs, pics posted in the other thread I started about the V35 we just got), using my own methods and my own tools, on my own car (well the gf's but you get the point). I fail to see at what stage in my development process your programmer gets his knickers in a knot.

In fact Shan I believe you said in January 2009 that you would look into doing it and in the last 17months have heard nothing from you. I sorry but I do not believe your claim that it is easy and a few weekends of spare time work. This is just not consistent with all I have been told about the system. But you are the programmer , I am not.

I did say I would look into it, but I didn't have a V35 to give me any urgency to follow through with it (in fact, there still isn't any urgency as her japanese is quite good and mine is good enough to navigate the basic commands). The gf bought a V35 sedan last month. So I've had about a month to play with it. I never said it was easy, the fact that I don't have a working firmware yet is testament to that... but I've only sat down with it for a couple of days so far.

The timing of your solution just makes me feel there is more to this than you are letting on. I guess time will tell all.

What timing? Exactly what do I stand to gain out of this that makes you guys think I have some sinister plan?

[MadMike]

I sure hope you guys figure this out amicably.

My v36 is due in a fortnight and anything that reduces the chance we'll get a conversion down the road is a loss to the community.