2008 F1 Season

[m3gtr]

WATCH THIS VIDEO!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

We can argue for years about this but Hamilton was massive under braking. That was his "advantage"

Raikkonen was 6 different kinds of shit crossed up - a miracle he got it that far...the crunch at the end was pretty *ughhhh...nasty* but man his reflexes are lightning fast

[Roy]

And, doesnt really paint a different picture to what we already know. If anything it shows how little space he gave Kimi on the straight...but that point is mute now. It was a tough call, but as soon as it happened i thought "drive through" as the FIA have form for it. Its another case of McLaren hurting themselves almost as much as the FIA does

[m3gtr]

And, doesnt really paint a different picture to what we already know. If anything it shows how little space he gave Kimi on the straight...but that point is mute now. It was a tough call, but as soon as it happened i thought "drive through" as the FIA have form for it. Its another case of McLaren hurting themselves almost as much as the FIA does

Had you seen it from that angle already?

It also shows how far ahead LH was going into the Busstop and how short the straight was to La Source. KR didnt give LH any quarter there and i know you would argue thats fair but as much as it pains me to say it, the "advantage" LH gained from the "slingshot that never was" was marginal and minimal and subjective at the very most.

No where in that video was LH in the stream of the Ferrari.

[dezz]

Oh they will only realise when F1 as we knows it dies.

It also has to be remembered that fundamentally speaking, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the way Hamilton overtook Raikkonen.

Lewis was along side going into the chicane and slotted in immediately after going over the line well behind the Ferrari.

If LH gained an advantage by cutting the chicane, how much of an advantage was it considering he was going into the chicane IN FRONT?

There was also a 6 kilometre speed difference between the two cars and ive replayed that part of the race 100 times now and you can clearly see Hamliton closing up massively, UNDER BRAKES. There was no slipstream advantage - LH wasnt even IN the stream of KR's Ferrari.

Watch the clip again and watch it carefully this time.

We have already agreed have we not, that the leader is in the more treacherous position, feeling out grip levels first in those kinds of conditions??

It is not LH's fault he had the bigger balls going into La Source, and its not KR's fault for hesitating and breaking at what was clearly and visibly way earlier than he had done in the previous 5 laps.

The biggest problem is that is APPEARED LH Gained the advantage when in actual fact he passed him under brakes into the Bus Stop and then again into La Source.

Game set and match for me.

Hamilton needs to be reinstated and the stewards stood down.

I'm not even sure its possible, but you just made even more of a fool of yourself than you already have in the past.

Going over the line well behind the Kimi? Don't post up the videos that destroy your claims. He's still alongside him when they cross the line.

And the fact that he braked so late and would have struggled to have made the corner under the same circumstance if Kimi wasn't there at all, there's his advantage. He didn't make the chicane, he pulled back onto the track alongside Kimi, he was penalised.

On a side note, how sad that you've had to resort to attempting to mock my upbringing

back in the maclaren garage lewey has his daddy who looks like some kind of car wrecking cartoon character waiting for him with a poppa of orange juice.

back in the ferrari garage kimi has a team of super hot chicks with some bollinger waiting for him...

you decide who's the real winner here.

[m3gtr]

I'm not even sure its possible, but you just made even more of a fool of yourself than you already have in the past.

Going over the line well behind the Kimi? Don't post up the videos that destroy your claims. He's still alongside him when they cross the line.

And the fact that he braked so late and would have struggled to have made the corner under the same circumstance if Kimi wasn't there at all, there's his advantage. He didn't make the chicane, he pulled back onto the track alongside Kimi, he was penalised.

On a side note, how sad that you've had to resort to attempting to mock my upbringing

No he bloody well isnt you blind dingbat.

Hes behind him going over the line.

He was pulled up well before the corner even though he was carrying a heap more speed and was already turning in when KR came barging through and put him off the track.

The fact the Mac was the better car in those conditions is plain to see and the point for me is moot. Go and read the press release from the FIA. Like you, even the stewards dont even know what f**k they were on about and that will become very clear in the weeks to come.

There is way more to this than "Lewie cwossing the wittle white wines" and youre either blind or an idiot if you cant / wont see these things Dezzo.

Oh and how sad of you to mock LH's.

[bnr#@]

No he bloody well isnt you blind dingbat.

Hes behind him going over the line.

He was pulled up well before the corner even though he was carrying a heap more speed and was already turning in when KR came barging through and put him off the track.

The fact the Mac was the better car in those conditions is plain to see and the point for me is moot. Go and read the press release from the FIA. Like you, even the stewards dont even know what f**k they were on about and that will become very clear in the weeks to come.

There is way more to this than "Lewie cwossing the wittle white wines" and youre either blind or an idiot if you cant / wont see these things Dezzo.

Oh and how sad of you to mock LH's.

The Mac was undeniably a better car however it was not driven by a better driver. He was to agressive and pay'd the price for it (again). If he had just waited a bit more he would have won that race fair and square, but he didnt. Heike got a drive through on that corner for going in to agressive and hiting Webo, Lewise went to agresive and would have hit Kimi had he not cut the chicane so its the same punishment for the same crime there realy.

Cars always get close going in to a corner, but one they exit it the gap stretches again, (car infront accelerates that little bit earlier and stretches the distance). By saying that Lewise had the same gap to kime on the straight as he did in the corner just shows that he gained a fair bit of an advantage by cutting the chicane

[Mika]

And the fact that he braked so late and would have struggled to have made the corner under the same circumstance if Kimi wasn't there at all, there's his advantage. He didn't make the chicane, he pulled back onto the track alongside Kimi, he was penalised.

He made the chicane, Kimi gave him the squeeze which is fair enough, so he took evasive action. It happens all the time, yet penalties are rarely given. Had kimi not been there, Lewis would have been fine through that corner, it's quite obvious that even witht he wide line he had control until kimi ran wider than the normal line would be. Only the most one eyed of Ferrari fans could possibly see it the way you are.

Edited September 9, 2008 by Mika

[wolverine]

WATCH THIS VIDEO!

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6ovii_ww...iltonkimi_sport

We can argue for years about this but Hamilton was massive under braking. That was his "advantage"

Raikkonen was 6 different kinds of shit crossed up - a miracle he got it that far...the crunch at the end was pretty *ughhhh...nasty* but man his reflexes are lightning fast

adam, do you think hamilton should have followed the line of the corner on the ripple strip after he was caught on the outside? it seems he had the opportunity to do so but he wound on left lock an cut across the corner which ultimately saved him some time and car speed. i'm pretty sure that is what the would have considered as the most critical aspect rather just that he gave the place back. that video shows it pretty well.

i reckon 99% of us would do exactly the same thing but i am positive he would have been much slower than just 6km/h if he had completed the corner. a real shame since it was great driving in the wet from both (and the others) up till then.

doesn't it show what a handful the ferrari is to drive in the wet. yikes.

bring on the weekend.

[Roy]

Listening to the engine pitch after cutting the chicane, i suspect Lewis knew exactly what he was doign when letting Kimi get a bees dick ahead before jumping up the inside. He lay have lifted to let Kimi by, but he played it pretty close to the ruling of re-addressing the position/not gaining an advantage. Looking how quick the Mac was he probably now realises he didnt have to play it so close to the line.

Yeh Adam, i saw that angle on the night, hence my comments straight after the race that he may well be in trouble as it was being discussd before the delayed press conference.

But, doesnt change a thing, other then perhaps Hamfist may be a little more patient/careful in the future...a bad thing for F1 but a good thing for McLaren

[bnr#@]

The ferrari does look nasty in the wet....

[m3gtr]

Good points all round i think.

How bout we let this bullshit go and rev up for Monza?

It will be a cracker with only 4 to go after that.

Cant wait.

[m3gtr]

The ferrari does look nasty in the wet....

Oath. The Mac was so much more behaved.

Probable highlights pretty well the difference in driver skill to control such an animal - KR vs FM...

KR held on for ages - FM...well, how many spins was it again?

You could almost see how shit scared FM was on that last lap - slowing right down to a crawl to get it over the line.

Any slower and NH wouldve had him, lol

[djr81]

Oath. The Mac was so much more behaved.

Probable highlights pretty well the difference in driver skill to control such an animal - KR vs FM...

KR held on for ages - FM...well, how many spins was it again?

You could almost see how shit scared FM was on that last lap - slowing right down to a crawl to get it over the line.

Any slower and NH wouldve had him, lol

If you watched the race & the McLaren you would have seen how tail happy it was. It would appear that Hamilton is happy to set the car up that way & drive it that way. Which is great because it looks a treat on the tellie.

Also any car on the last lap on slicks was hopeless. Try 30 seconds slower than those with wets.

The point needs to be made that if the McLaren was 6 km/h slower than the Ferrari & behind it (although no one has said these two things necessarilly coincided) then surely the gain in position is addressed?

The shame of it all is the 40th anniversary of Bruce McLarens breakthrough win in a championship F1 race (yes kiddies there used to be non championship F1 races) was 40 years ago at Spa and it has been all but forgotten. Send them all out in M7's on the full length circuit in the rain & see how hard they really are I say.

[m3gtr]

Not hard enough id wager.

Not even close. Yeah i remember the occassion...thanks for reminding me - Id gotten 7 shades of twisted over all this shit.

[hrd-hr30]

The point needs to be made that if the McLaren was 6 km/h slower than the Ferrari & behind it (although no one has said these two things necessarilly coincided) then surely the gain in position is addressed?

No. If LH had stayed behind KR instead of cutting and running, he would have had the usual concertina effect to deal with coming out of that slow turn - where the time gap stays the same, but as speed increases the distance gap increases. The cut and run put him way closer to the ferrari up the straight than he would otherwise have been, and that advantage in proximity enabled, or certainly assisted, him to make the pass immediately afterwards at the end of the straight.

[dezz]

Oath. The Mac was so much more behaved.

Probable highlights pretty well the difference in driver skill to control such an animal - KR vs FM...

KR held on for ages - FM...well, how many spins was it again?

You could almost see how shit scared FM was on that last lap - slowing right down to a crawl to get it over the line.

Any slower and NH wouldve had him, lol

I don't think I saw Massa spin at all once it started raining at Spa, there was the race a few back (can't remember the track) where he was woeful in the wet and spun something like 10+ times....

In Spa however I don't recall him dropping it? Maybe you're reffering to the other race which is fine...

As for how slow he was going on the last lap, thats what I call sensible. He knows he's not going to catch Lewis, and would have been aware of Heidfeld behind him...So he did what was needed to finish in P2 and not go and do something unnecessary like someone else that I won't name.

[djr81]

No. If LH had stayed behind KR instead of cutting and running, he would have had the usual concertina effect to deal with coming out of that slow turn - where the time gap stays the same, but as speed increases the distance gap increases. The cut and run put him way closer to the ferrari up the straight than he would otherwise have been, and that advantage in proximity enabled, or certainly assisted, him to make the pass immediately afterwards at the end of the straight.

He couldn't stay behind Kimi because of the line the Ferrari took into the chicane.

What Hamilton had when he was behind Kimi was a slower speed. To get this he backed off & allowed Kimi past. He none the less made it back up along the length of the straight which sort of indicates there is more to the story as ordinarily he shouldn't have been able to.

Six km/h is 1.6 metres per second. So every couple seconds along the straight should have represented a car length.

By contrast a 2/10's gap at 100 km/h is 5.5 metres & at 200km/h 11 metres.

So by allowing a couple or three seconds to travel the length of the straight you end up at a point where there is fk all in it either way.

For me the overtake was about what Hamilton did under brakes not what happened on the straight, ie about the grip available to the car not its terminal speed. In any case the terminal speed of the McLaren would have been down on that of the Ferrari.

So I don't reckon there was much in it either way. My opinion (for what little it is worth) is Hamilton did enough to satisfy the regulations. Yes he missed the chicane (or was forced to) but by backing off & letting the Ferrari past he satisfied the requirements. That he was able to outbrake Kimi is good for him. Kimi took a couple of different lines on the approach to the corner which may well have raised a few eyebrows in diferent circumstances.

The more important point was it was good racing. The kind of thing that should be encouraged. I don't really need to see more boring, processional F1 races, nor the FIA interfering with the championship again. Nor I suspect does anyone else.

Here is hoping Kimi can get it together & put up a good fight to repeat his championship.

Edited September 9, 2008 by djr81

[dezz]

As much as I want Kimi to take it, I just don't see it happening from here. Ferrari are not, in my opinion, in a position where they can afford to let Massa and Kimi fight it out, as I think that will pretty much hand it to Hamilton.

[Roy]

DJ...you are getting a bit carried away with numbers Its abotu track position, and cutting the kerb gave it to him. The 6km/h thing is from Mclaren, i would like to know how they know how quick the Ferrari was going? Seems a fair question?

[m3gtr]

I don't think I saw Massa spin at all once it started raining at Spa, there was the race a few back (can't remember the track) where he was woeful in the wet and spun something like 10+ times....

In Spa however I don't recall him dropping it? Maybe you're reffering to the other race which is fine...

As for how slow he was going on the last lap, thats what I call sensible. He knows he's not going to catch Lewis, and would have been aware of Heidfeld behind him...So he did what was needed to finish in P2 and not go and do something unnecessary like someone else that I won't name.

Yeah I was referring to Britain when i mentioned the spins. Nah he didnt drop it in Spa which was very uncharacteristic of him to be perfeclty honest, lol