Recent Spike In Violence In Melbourne

[xALmoN]

Like the other day, i saw a police car, sirens and lights blazing, just to catch someone parking illegally.

I was amazed. Just opposite the state library.

[Lauz_90]

Yea right, nice story Nismoid, you always have some little analogy to back up ur point but most of us know that 95% of the stories u say a purely lies.

I mean this might have worked 5 years ago with ur little world of warcraft buddies but you don't seriously expect us to believe a story like that?

Fool

So you are saying he made up the whole story about the police etc?

Hmm... I'm pretty sure he just told his girlfriend what happened and I don't think he would lie to her... do you?

[ss07]

hahaha owned

[R31Nismoid]

Yea right, nice story Nismoid, you always have some little analogy to back up ur point but most of us know that 95% of the stories u say a purely lies.

I mean this might have worked 5 years ago with ur little world of warcraft buddies but you don't seriously expect us to believe a story like that?

Fool

lol you truly are a muppet

[shaun123]

I think it all starts with parents, i was hit when i was a kid and shit scared of my dad to get upto anything too bad and my mums disappointed look would make me feel guilty for ages but because of this, i knew what was right and wrong.

Too many child advocate groups now, 'dont hit your kids' blah blah bullshit, kids need to be afraid of their parents and know if they do something wrong they will be punished! NOT sent to your room (or some weak bullshit like that)!!

Another issue underlying this is that divorce has spiked IMO, these heroes with no dads to give them a good lashing aren't there, so they think they answer to nobody.

The government also seriously need to look at where they are focusing their police resources. They need to stop focusing SO much on traffic offenses (like if you travel 4km over the speed limit, you are the devil!) and deal with more serious matters like these.

Police need more powers, they cant do anything to these fools because they can say the police used excessive force etc... and the coppa may be out of the job/suspended - people are quickly loosing respect for authority, people should be scared of the police.

Lastly, the laws for assault need to be toughened up (the minimum penaltys)

Pill popping is not the problem, its alcohol. Went to Sensation on NYE (40,000 or 50k people) and i didnt see any fights. Went to a pub last week, got started 2 times over nothing.

Edited July 19, 2009 by shaun123

[Birds]

They know i can't do a thing - i know i can't do a thing.

Unless i had two mates or something both filming it from other sides of the streets - the officers would simply lie in court and it would go their way.

Similar to charges they have lied about in the past when i've had to go to court - luckily i had decent supporting evidence then so the judge saw through them rather easily.

But all it comes back to is this - there is no punishment for Police who colaborate to lie in court

If you get wrongly charged and taken to court (and charges dropped), the officer in question just walks away, virtually no questions asked style.

However - If the officer was made to cover say "costs upto $300" out of his own pay when lodging a charge (should it be dismissed) - you would soon find that ridiculous policing, like revenue raising fines for cars etc, would go away - and real policing with factual evidence (crimes, assaults, rapes etc etc) would actually benefit from the whole situation.

That wont happen of course. The Gov't relies on the income

This is very much a sad reality. Lastnight I was driving around some rather quiet roads (in a quiet country town I was visiting) looking for a pub my friend had told me to come to. When I had found it, I started looking for a parking spot (to no avail). So having no luck on that side of the street, I pulled over and checked my mirrors...looking around to see if any other cars were coming before performing a U-turn. After the U-turn, and about 100 metres down the road, red and blue lights appear in the rear vision mirror. Officer gets out and says I crossed the double lines back there when I did a U-turn. I said I didn't know I had done anything wrong. He breathalised me, then asked for my licence. Saw my address and made comment that he realised I wasn't from around there but they have alot of accidents "in the city" (basically a few strips of shopping arcades). He took my licence for a check and then came back to me with "you'll get a fine in the mail". I asked him how much it would cost and he says 'aw I think it's about 160/180 bucks.' I asked him how many points it would be...he replies with 'I'm not sure, probably 3 points.'

Now I acknowledge that I was technically breaking the law in doing what I did. What really got to me was the officer's attitude. For starters he made me feel like a fine was going to be issued based on my status as a local or tourist. His lack of knowledge when it came to penalties for the very laws that he was policing...was a joke. The discretionary ability of the officer (who probably performed a U-turn himself to catch me), ignoring the fact it was 12am with next to no other cars on the road at the time (not to mention a car would have to have been ploughing through the 50km/h zone to hit me during my U-turn), couldn't have just pointed out my mistake and let the straight cut blade of law slide given the circumstances. The lazyness of not writing me out the fine on the spot when he already had me pulled over? I was really annoyed. This officer would have been better serving the community had he been stationed at the pub I later entered, where there were plenty of overly intoxicated/drugged up occupants. The experience definitely detracted from the respect I'd developed for law enforcement over the years.

I have met some bloody decent cops in my time on the road; some who have used their discretion to offer me warnings for mistakes or behaviour, others who have issued a fine that should have been more severe than it was. Whenever this has happened to me, I've driven away with a good deal of respect for the officer...who has come across as caring more about people obeying the law than pleasing their revenue quota. It's also left me thinking more about what I've done wrong instead of being clouded by the sense of bitterness associated with receiving a fine. But this latest fine, was just the complete opposite of all that.

Edited July 19, 2009 by Birds

[GTR-32U]

I think the Police need to Muscle up ! How many times have you seen an officer and he is some scrawny underfed 60kg piss-ant ? Nothing against 60kg Piss-ants as I am sure they have their place in the force ( like admin work/fetching coffee or donuts ) But when it comes to street crime you need riot police. Guys who are over 80kg , 6 ft tall and can handle themselves in crowd conflict. Martial arts or self defense background etc....

I think somebody else mentioned something along these lines earlier about having a clean up crew on the beat. But was flamed by somebody stating their 20 cops would be hopeless against 300 hoods...

I dont really agree with that I think a few riot cops in groups WOULD clean up pretty well. Sure there may be 300 hoods , But you have to remember that these 300 hoods are not all in unison and supportive of each other-usually the opposite. Riot police have pretty good resources available if need be.

Back in my security days I had the chance to witness a certain Shopping centre who had hoodlum problems briefly employ a "clean up crew " to assist there already outnumbered security team. Funnily enough it was only 5 guys...And i have to admit in the beginning I was highly sceptical... But after a few weeks....unbelievable..!! They would pick off there targets one by one- very organised.. Amazing when the fully hectic troublemaker guys with all these contacts on the mobile phones walks past a fire escape door in a shopping mall to have the clean up crew race out of it,grab and drag him in and close the door in under 5 seconds... All the concrete walls in the fire escape passages block the mobile reception...Well all my scepticism disappeared when you see the guy that you dont mess with Bawling his eyes out like a spanked baby

Cant say that i really supported what they did, But it was effective

[KezR33]

Funny story

I said to two Police officers tonight that "you should police real crime, and not be pulling over cars to raise revenue".

The result?

I was assaulted.

One officer (snr constable) grabbed me by the throat and pushed me about 20 meters down the road to a enclosed area (near the lawyers chamber, queen st). The other officer just stood by and watched. He was only around 5"6' so probably suffering a large case of little man's syndrome.

I was strangled for around 10-15 seconds whilst being forced to the darkened/enclosed area, it wasn't a heavy strangle so as to cut off circulation - but i'll probably carry a bruise or two in a couple of days none the less.

Threats like "we will stick you in the lockup for 3-4hrs", were thrown at me - i mean ffs - what the fk for - a few words? lol...

And that "you'll think twice now before mouthing off to the Police" - haha - as if. I'll do it again next week if the chance presents.

Gotta love the fact that as a single lone anglo male i was targeted - yet groups of 4+ people are not targeted and then go and bash people!

Also the fact they were pulling over a car that had nothing more than a set of shiny wheels... i mean fks sake - do some REAL WORK.

Of course, i wont be lodging a complaint or anything... Regardless of the fact i would sign a stat dec stating the incident. It means nothing... why?

Two officers, my word against theirs. Usual story really as Police are well known to lie black and blue in court to protect each other (as i've personally seen on a number of occasions).

I must admit i laughed the whole time @ the fact i was assaulted for nothing more than half a dozen words... yet i know 1000% it would not have happened had i been in a group of 4+ people.

The 'police' wonder why there is no respect for them when they behave like that... bunch of silly muppets really.

(no offense to you Graeme - i know without question you are a decent officer of the law as opposed to the vast majority who are simply sub standard)

Report them.

Nothing may come of it, but he may have previous reports against him too.

Besides, if you say nothing its almost giving him permission to do it again.

Seriously. Report it. I got f**ked by a crooked cop, and I can only hope he doesn't do it to anyone else. They honestly have far too much power and not enough screening to earn it.

[trel]

Speaking on the whole anglo/wog thing, I was out with 3 mates the other night eating outside a kebab shop, now all 3 of us are of "ethnic backgrounds" when an "anglo" male starts taking the piss for no apparent reason. We told him to piss off and he kept going until his girlfriend came outside and ushered him back into the shop.

Now you tell me who starts the trouble? We are demonised when we tell them to piss off, they keep going, take swings then we end up fighting and it's the wogs who start the trouble?

Come off it. Racism is rife and you all know it. All it takes is a few words and it's on.

[SKYL1N]

Speaking on the whole anglo/wog thing, I was out with 3 mates the other night eating outside a kebab shop, now all 3 of us are of "ethnic backgrounds" when an "anglo" male starts taking the piss for no apparent reason. We told him to piss off and he kept going until his girlfriend came outside and ushered him back into the shop.

Now you tell me who starts the trouble? We are demonised when we tell them to piss off, they keep going, take swings then we end up fighting and it's the wogs who start the trouble?

Come off it. Racism is rife and you all know it. All it takes is a few words and it's on.

+1

Many times me and friends have been minding our own business, even at maccas having something to eat, and all of us sober.

and of course a group of drunk young aussie guys (not singling them out) scream out wogs and snicker at us.

Yet if we were to say something back and stand up for ourselves were the ones who on camera look like we are causing a problem.

Now im not saying aussies are bad, i am aussie and proud of it. but sometimes security footage doesn't tell the whole story

Edited July 19, 2009 by SKYL1N

[PurpleR32]

Yea right, nice story Nismoid, you always have some little analogy to back up ur point but most of us know that 95% of the stories u say a purely lies.

I mean this might have worked 5 years ago with ur little world of warcraft buddies but you don't seriously expect us to believe a story like that?

Fool

Can i assume your implying the bruises on his neck were self inflicted as well?

[Niz32det]

20/07/2009

This sh|ts me! Its so close to home..

[Birds]

Yes, and for every story you have about ethnics being started by Australians there is a story for Australians being started by ethnics. It comes from both sides guys. No use pretending that Australians are the only ones capable of inciting racism or starting fights. I'm Australian (but I look wog) and I've been attacked by both sides of it before. Regardless, my examples and your examples do not dictate the whole picture. You're just generalising your own experience to everyone.

It all comes down to the temperament of an individual person and the demographics of their friends to influence that person. Most racist people have never had the pleasure of being close to someone from another country and so a racial gap is never closed for them. I say temperament too, because I have two groups of friends. One is all Australian, the other I am the only Australian. Racial slurs come from both groups. Regardless, it's all talk - neither group are violent people and would never start a fight with someone based on them being a different race. If I had to choose a group I would expect to start a fight over race? The Australians...not because they are Australian, but because where they live and the jobs they work...they aren't close with people from different countries. Consequently, they develop a "f**k everyone else" pack mentality that happens with any singular race group of people, regardless of where you're from. This pack mentality can certainly influence motivation for a violent individual starting a fight. Me on the other hand, I've had friends from everywhere...I can't fathom how people can be racist (besides being taught the behavioural reasons for it in psychology classes) because I'm not exposed to just a singular race of company.

P.S. Taso84 you are a jackass.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Birds

[madbung]

Yes, and for every story you have about ethnics being started by Australians there is a story for Australians being started by ethnics. It comes from both sides guys. No use pretending that Australians are the only ones capable of inciting racism or starting fights. I'm Australian (but I look wog) and I've been attacked by both sides of it before. Regardless, my examples and your examples do not dictate the whole picture. You're just generalising your own experience to everyone.

It all comes down to the temperament of an individual person and the demographics of their friends to influence that person. Most racist people have never had the pleasure of being close to someone from another country and so a racial gap is never closed for them. I say temperament too, because I have two groups of friends. One is all Australian, the other I am the only Australian. Racial slurs come from both groups. Regardless, it's all talk - neither group are violent people and would never start a fight with someone based on them being a different race. If I had to choose a group I would expect to start a fight over race? The Australians...not because they are Australian, but because where they live and the jobs they work...they aren't close with people from different countries. Consequently, they develop a "f**k everyone else" pack mentality that happens with any singular race group of people, regardless of where you're from. This pack mentality can certainly influence motivation for a violent individual starting a fight. Me on the other hand, I've had friends from everywhere...I can't fathom how people can be racist (besides being taught the behavioural reasons for it in psychology classes) because I'm not exposed to just a singular race of company.

P.S. Taso84 you are a jackass.

Seriously Birds..

I have read what you wrote but what does it all mean......what does it all mean?

I'm Anglo-Saxon, we think everyone and everything is foreign and most of the time it is.

Lmao at the reasoning behind why the Aussies would be the most likely group to start trouble, because Aussies are insular?

Yes we keep to ourselves and all buy our homes in the same suburbs <<<< piss off !! I don't see any "Aussie enclaves" being created.

Where your average Aussie lives is generally determined by financial contraints, not because he prefers the company of his own people.

Farkin weird thread full of odd thoughts.

[Birds]

No Madbung, not because Aussies are insular, but because many people are when it comes to race. It just happens that my example was my group of friends, full of Australians...there are plenty of Italian only groups (for another example) who do the exact same thing as my Australian friends. People form groups based on common goals and having things in common with others. There's no more obvious common than someone being the same race as you. It's just a consequence of human behaviour to be insular to other races. All I'm saying is the racism thing isn't exclusive to any one race...it has more to do with group mentality than a particular race.

As for enclaves, there doesn't need to be. They are called "ethnic minorities" for a reason. Their enclaves create our enclaves. But if you want an example, Ferntree Gully and Frankston are good fits of this description IMO.

Like I said it comes down to individual temperament and the company you are with. It is happening in groups, not individually. It is happening with alcohol because alcohol is a temperament accelerator. You combine all of these and you get racially incited violence. I can guarantee if someone had a friend from every country in the world, racism would seldom exist beyond a couple of jokes being thrown around.

Edited July 20, 2009 by Birds

[NickR33]

its got nothing to do with racism... anyone who thinks that needs to grow up

young men + alcohol... its been happening for decades and will continue... you think we are the first generation to have problems with fighting and street racing etc... young guys have been getting in fights and driving too fast ever since alcohol and the car was invented... before that young blokes probably rode their horses too fast and punched on after downing some home brew

I tell you what though, any young guy who has a proper strict parenting wouldn't be involved in group bashing some innocent bloke... parents are f*cking rubbish these days... the problems with the police force don't help but it comes back to teaching a kid right from wrong... I used to be scared of the police but only because they might tell my parents what I'd been up to! lol

[madbung]

As for enclaves, there doesn't need to be. They are called "ethnic minorities" for a reason. Their enclaves create our enclaves. But if you want an example, Ferntree Gully and Frankston are good fits of this description IMO.

I'm glad you said IMO, I have lived in or near both of those areas and from the inside I'll tell you they have the same ratio of wogs, skips, asians and curries as anywhere else. In Frankston's case probably more mixed than most areas. 2am outside the grand hotel might be different, but hey that's hardly a fair sample of the general population is it?

Aussie enclaves created by the enclaves of other minority groups? Birds....

So you're trying to use Frankston as an example of an Aussie enclave being created because it's surrounded by minority groups?

Are you saying these things to try and validate a point? or am I getting confused by your addled use of the English language.

You're Batman's nemisis.....THE RIDDLER!

[Birds]

2AM outside The Grand Hotel will do fine as an example...what kind of crowd demographic frequent that place? Are there many Indian university students?

By your logic Springvale and Ferntree Gully have the same ratio of Asians to Australians? I'd put more than my money against that one. Ferntree Gully, albeit stereotyped, is known to plenty as a typical "bogan" suburb. I've never seen that word used to describe anything but Australian people. No, I'm not saying Frankston was created as an enclave in response to a minority's enclave. I'm saying a minority's enclave...let's take Springvale for example...turns Frankston into an Australian enclave because immigrants choose to live elsewhere amongst their own enclaves. Regardless, even if there are people of other races living in the same suburb, you will find that many people of the same race choose not to associate with them...or moreso...they choose to associate with their own kind instead. Sometimes this is on purpose, sometimes this is just because of differences in cultural interest (many Australians, for example, playing AFL on the weekend as opposed to many Europeans playing Soccer instead). Consequently, these races do not cross until everyone goes into the city for a night out at the clubs...where races are forced to mix together. Violent people + racist group of same race friends + alcohol = racially onset, alcohol fuelled fights.

I apologise if my words come across as confusing. It's a difficult point to explain, but if you can see it, that's the psychology behind it^.

[bombtrack]

Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread but I reckon it's a good idea and have seen it work 1st hand... In Germany, more specifically in my example, Munich, they impose fines for being involved in a street fight, no matter who started what, or the situation at hand. Thousands of Euros.

1. It would deter people, particularly less fortunate people, from fighting, as they cannot afford it.

2. It solves Vicpols precious revenue raising strategy at the same time. Bust a couple of street fighters and all of a sudden the few hundred bucks from the hand brake clicking 1 or 2 times too many would be much less attaractive on the balance sheet.

[Birds]

I would like to see that come into play. My only concern is that innocent people running away from it or simply trying to defend themselves will cop the fine too. Bit unfair given someone else's choice to attack you.