Engine Upgrades For The Stagea

[darrinspencer]

Keen to discuss engine options and peoples opionions and which is the best way to go with a 1750kg car

Keen to build a new engine for reliabilty and handle more power

First 3 things is to decide I think are

1. Purpose of car, ie daily street, track, drag, drift or dyno queen.

2. What are your power and torque torque

3. What you have already and can it be reused but made better

There are four main Rb engine choices

A. Series 1 r33 rb25

B. Series 2 R34 rb25

C. Rb26

D. Rb30 bottom end with the 3 head options

I will start with what I want

1. 99% Daily street car with the very occasional drag, track or dyno day.

2. Car soon to be tuned to see somewhere around 300rwkw mark. Is this enough???, more torque and something like upto 350-400rwkw's maybe better

3. Rb25det NEO with stock internals with bolt on upgrades of Gt3076r .82 IW turbo, 650cc injectors, plazmaman inlet plenum, nistune ecu, fmic etc.

Since there is somewhere around $7-8K in those parts alone that could be reused these this needs to be considered

Apart from maybe upgrading to a bigger turbo GT35?? and still staying internally waste gated, I could reuse my Neo head, inlet plenum and injectors and exhaust dump pipe. May need an ecu upgrade as the nistune maybe pushed past its limit

Have been reading a bit lately about wants needed for Rb30 bottom end and the AWd block needs to be taken into consideration.

Few people have expressed the NEO head is a better option that the Rb26 head due to have VVT and larger valves and also has solid lifters like the rb26 head. The main thing the Rb26 head has over the NEO head is the ITB's for response.

So should I go

1. Forged Rb25det NEO max 350rwkw's

2. Forged RB30 bottom end with Neo head, upto 400rwkw's and losts more torque

3. Complete Rb26 for the ITB's (and wank factor)

4. Rb30 bottom end with Rb26 head and twin turbo

Want to start shopping for bits over time, so when the stock engine dies I will be ready.

[Jetwreck]

Keen to discuss engine options and peoples opionions and which is the best way to go with a 1750kg car

Keen to build a new engine for reliabilty and handle more power

First 3 things is to decide I think are

1. Purpose of car, ie daily street, track, drag, drift or dyno queen.

2. What are your power and torque torque

3. What you have already and can it be reused but made better

There are four main Rb engine choices

A. Series 1 r33 rb25

B. Series 2 R34 rb25

C. Rb26

D. Rb30 bottom end with the 3 head options

I will start with what I want

1. 99% Daily street car with the very occasional drag, track or dyno day.

2. Car soon to be tuned to see somewhere around 300rwkw mark. Is this enough???, more torque and something like upto 350-400rwkw's maybe better

3. Rb25det NEO with stock internals with bolt on upgrades of Gt3076r .82 IW turbo, 650cc injectors, plazmaman inlet plenum, nistune ecu, fmic etc.

Since there is somewhere around $7-8K in those parts alone that could be reused these this needs to be considered

Apart from maybe upgrading to a bigger turbo GT35?? and still staying internally waste gated, I could reuse my Neo head, inlet plenum and injectors and exhaust dump pipe. May need an ecu upgrade as the nistune maybe pushed past its limit

Have been reading a bit lately about wants needed for Rb30 bottom end and the AWd block needs to be taken into consideration.

Few people have expressed the NEO head is a better option that the Rb26 head due to have VVT and larger valves and also has solid lifters like the rb26 head. The main thing the Rb26 head has over the NEO head is the ITB's for response.

So should I go

1. Forged Rb25det NEO max 350rwkw's

2. Forged RB30 bottom end with Neo head, upto 400rwkw's and losts more torque

3. Complete Rb26 for the ITB's (and wank factor)

4. Rb30 bottom end with Rb26 head and twin turbo

Want to start shopping for bits over time, so when the stock engine dies I will be ready.

If it's 99% street I would go with the RB30! There's no substitute for CI's.....especially around the street when more often than not you need instant response.

[pipster11]

1. Forged Rb25det NEO max 350rwkw's

2. Forged RB30 bottom end with Neo head, upto 400rwkw's and losts more torque

i would say number 2 is the way to go here

heaps more torque and heaps more potential

the neo head flows better but also has one main advantage - vct, this adds a lot a mid range

prob the biggest question tho, is it going through a slush box or manual and what is the budget?

if i ever have the money i'll be getting a rips 4wd rb30 block and put my head on it

even so, 300 rwkw is quite a lot but still manageable easily on a un-opened 25 neo with the right supporting mods

[iseekool]

RB30 with an RB26 head

3L will give you lots more low down torque for a heavy vehicle - just don't expect it to rev as hard.

[darrinspencer]

RB30 with an RB26 head

3L will give you lots more low down torque for a heavy vehicle - just don't expect it to rev as hard.

Why the Rb26 head over the Neo?

[d1_drifter]

Is there any particular reason you'd like to stay with an IW rear as opposed to an external wastegate that is plumbed back into the exhaust?

What transmission configuration are you using/will be using?

[coparts41]

if it is a 99% daily driver , leave the think alone, maybe turbo mods and pipes ,nowdays every thing else is cop bait

[KiwiRS4T]

How much power is enough? 250 - 270 awkw is plenty for an exciting road car. If you can get 300kw from your set up you can stop right there.

For the track or drags there is never enough. The Stagea will never be a competetive circuit car and if you want to race regularly you would be better to build a dedicated track car. Because I am old and poor I am using my Stagea on the track just for fun and will get a 1/4 mile time just to see what it is but again it will never be a competitive racer.

If you do want to change your engine RB30 is the way to go. I recently saw a Tomei stroker kit going for 20K. A VL block is $200 or the real deal from Rips $5000. The head is not so important so long as you have a decent turbo. I have got a GT3540 which will take me as far as I want to go. I am using an RB25DE (n/a) head because it is cheap, has big ports and vvt. AN RB26 head would be better for obvious reasons but cost 10x as much.

if you want the sound of an RB26 screaming at 10,000 rev minutes (and it is exciting) you will be paying through the nose for the privilege. An RB30 will give you the same power with heaps of low down torque for a fraction of the price.

[32TAXI]

My prefect stagea engine would include RB25 NEO 4WD block, sleeved with open deck spacer and RB30 crank - similar to os giken 3L.

But my RS4s is happy ATM with fmic, pod, zorst, PFC, 11psi and a lazy 206awhp.

[66yostagea]

You can have anything, if you pay the price!

[QWK32]

hahaha it never ends hey darrin i like the idea of a forged 25, i keep tossing up between the RB30 build and a forged RB25 paths for when/if my engine starts to go. for the torque and response you cant go past the RB30 but a forged RB25 setup write would be fun too, and more than enough power for a daily driver. as you know my stagea is my daily driver and the setup i have at the moment can be a bit wild for everyday traffic, so i can only imagine what a built RB25 or RB30 would be like lol.

if your keen on the RB30 i reckon just use the 25 neo head, you already have it so why not, just have the RB30 block built read to go, and bolt the head on when you want. also the nistune ecu will handle it, i've seen a few RB30 builds using nistune fine.

Edited April 16, 2010 by QWK32

[unique1]

How much power is enough? 250 - 270 awkw is plenty for an exciting road car. If you can get 300kw from your set up you can stop right there.

For the track or drags there is never enough. The Stagea will never be a competetive circuit car and if you want to race regularly you would be better to build a dedicated track car. Because I am old and poor I am using my Stagea on the track just for fun and will get a 1/4 mile time just to see what it is but again it will never be a competitive racer.

If you do want to change your engine RB30 is the way to go. I recently saw a Tomei stroker kit going for 20K. A VL block is $200 or the real deal from Rips $5000. The head is not so important so long as you have a decent turbo. I have got a GT3540 which will take me as far as I want to go. I am using an RB25DE (n/a) head because it is cheap, has big ports and vvt. AN RB26 head would be better for obvious reasons but cost 10x as much.

if you want the sound of an RB26 screaming at 10,000 rev minutes (and it is exciting) you will be paying through the nose for the privilege. An RB30 will give you the same power with heaps of low down torque for a fraction of the price.

^^This man speaks the truth.

I have probably said it 100 times over the years but ive had both ends of the spectrum in my stagea and honestly anything over 300rwkw is a waste of time for what it costs. The stagea is not a track car and never will be its just not small enough, ive tried and its just not worth the hassle when u can play around with a 32 gtr or something and everything is off the shelf and a shitload lighter.

My current combo is fine for a street car and drives perfect, i think the 3076r is a little small and noisy (whistles like a t51r) but besides that the off boost drivability is brilliant, i go through small roundabouts in 3rd and it just cruises along, no annoying 2nd gear everytime u want to accelerate like the old 26 was (though it had a 800hp turbo on it so not ideal comparision).

my idea was go for a cheap power figure so everything is reliable but still retains a fair bit of stock gear. Theres no point swapping out 10 things because u want an extra 30kw or something, it just doesnt make it worth it.

I went rb30 bottom end, freshened up with stock cast replacement pistons (20 thou oversize) and rods, king bearings, machined and bored, new tensioner and idler, new seals and decked. All up its very very cheap and capable of holding 430rwhp or so i reckon for a long time. The head is a stock 26 setup with a freshen up as well, stock cams and stock valve gear.

Turbo is the 3076r external gate which as i said is pretty small but definately capable of making the 430rwhp range i was after. It makes 21psi at 3000rpm in 4th on the road. Cam timing is currently not right so max power isnt that much at this stage and i havent had a chance to play around with it yet (i tuned it on the road with a mate helping).

For the 430hp mark you dont need a super clutch either, a single with decent clamp pressure is fine, no twin plate rattles or heavy pedal feel.

The rb26 injectors are just on the limit at 400hp so thats something needed to be changed, but i retain stock fuel reg, stock rb26 oil pump, rb26 balancer, and stock plenum/tb's/intercooler. I also bought a pro engines sump adaptor for $900ish with the oil pickup to save hassles of making one, but the plate is only in the $600 range.

thats my take on things after having a pretty crazy setup in the car before and changing it into a more street friendly vehicle.

The biggest issue with big power (500hp and over) in a stagea and especially with 3l torque is the gearbox 3rd gear breaking issue. Upgrade options are super expensive too.

So if you want more than the power i went for then its time to upgrade these things or look into it...

gearbox

twin plate clutch

fuel pumps

oil pump

injectors

head porting is an option

cams

gtr rear end axles, etc

bigger baffled sump

intercooler

turbo

exhuast size (need around 3.5' min)

ati balancer

and the list goes on...

Edited April 16, 2010 by unique1

[Duncan]

as you know....I put my money down for rb30 with r33 gtst head and front facing plenum. absolutety no regrets it is everything i hoped for and more in response. Give me a bell if you are in sydney - once you try it you will not consider anything but rb30. Lots of china bits so it came in cheap

mine is no dyno queen, it is for low down torque, daily driving and towing the race car (2t+)

depending on how serious you are about power of course...I am happy with 250 in a daily driver.....but lets face it, 400 is the new 250

btw I don't see theoretical benefits of one head over another being very relevent - any of them are fine for 300kw as proven time and time again in skylines. r33 rb25 is the cheapest and still did 250 easy (my requirement) so that is what i went.

[GTRWAGON]

Having owned a R32GTR before "upgrading" to the Stagea I would say you'd have more money than brains to try and make the Stagea anything but a mean streeter.

Of coarse there are those who are willing, but really the Stagea was never designed for the purpose. Personally anything in the 250kw - 300kw range is plenty enough.

The usual suspects, air intake, turbo's, exhaust, cams, ECU and tune is really all you need. And if you really want to spend some serious cash, just those alone buying top end branding will satisfy.

Keep it clean and neat, avoid the cops and still have a streeter that can fly under the radar

[wolverine]

RIPS RB30, neo head, 260 deg type b poncams, GT3076 56 trim comp, turbine housing 1.06 ext gated divided housing, divided merge collector manifold, front facing plenum.

[rb26stagea]

Hi Darrin,

for my money, it'd be a RB30 bottom end with whatever head you felt like: you wouldn't have too much trouble reaching your power goal with any of them, yes?

You're more than welcome to take mine for a spin and see what you think: I find the 26 a bit lacking in low end: if we were to have the time again, I would have opted for a 3L.

[RSVFOURUK]

Hi Darrin,

for my money, it'd be a RB30 bottom end with whatever head you felt like: you wouldn't have too much trouble reaching your power goal with any of them, yes?

You're more than welcome to take mine for a spin and see what you think: I find the 26 a bit lacking in low end: if we were to have the time again, I would have opted for a 3L.

Depends what type of power/drive you want

If you want 400bhp Id go stage 1 RB26 with a power Fc any more an RB30 is may be better

I went down the forged Rb26 route but I had the engine in the car already and I wanted 500hp atw With 2860-5s there isnt much lag ( 470ish ft lbs at 4500rpm with virtually no drop untill 6500) .

plus it sounds insane over 7500rpm on high boost

Despite this if I had to do it again I probably would go RB 30 though a gearbox may be needed if you do too many drags

Apologies but everything is hp not KW in the UK

[chuckie]

Well Lad`s & lasses it`s a RB 30 with Neo from me,

With look at Turbo`s not sure which way iam heading yet,

would like to get another Tiptronie box to be sorted out ,

but only looking for 250Kw`s but want low down Torque as it`s a DD

Good luck Darrin on your bit`s ,

Cheer`s Chuckie.

[Tangles]

Id go the RB30 bottom end, I was getting one for $50 but the seller neg'd on the deal

With the head, I believe the RB25de is the easiest head to mate up to the bottom end.

Heaps of porting flow work, lumpy cams and tight springs would be ace with a forged 30 bottom end & 3076r flowing a lazy 300kw

[unique1]

i think the 26 head is the easier option, no need to stuff around welding up the vct. Just use rb25 headbolts and bolt it on. No need for cams, springs or anything changed at all, not to mention the better plenum with easier pipework, invidivual tb's and no bonnet clearance issues as well.

Oh and the 26 head looks 10000 times better than a 25 one Turbo options are everywhere if you want twins or single theres plenty to chose from.

Dont bother with forged anything for 300rwkw, its just a waste and makes theh build about 3 or 4 times more expensive if you upgrade everything else to handle what the forged internals can do. Spend the cash on a decent tuner and it will go for years and not cost a hell of a lot.

Edited April 17, 2010 by unique1