How Much Power Is To Much

[The Bogan]

Forgive my nooby questions.

I have a road registered R33 GTS-T with a 25/30 (built), It shall be going in for the final tune soon, as it is now its got around 220 @ 7 psi (EBC is turned off but has another 2 settings, (low and high).

I use R compound semi slick tyres.

I suppose what Im asking is how much power should I look at getting it tuned to, how much power is too much for a RWD car to handle at the track (applying flame suit now).

Yes I know its a very open question with driver ability or lack of said ability, but I dont want it tuned to 400kw if 300kw will do.

I will only be doing supersprints at Wakey or E/C (RIP OP).

I hope someone understands my dribbling.

Thanks, Mark (what the hell am I doing) Robinson

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

tune to what your tuner reccomends.... if you are worried have a high and low setting thrown in there

[WHITER33GTS-T]

You can never have to much power. Mine made 475rwkw. Not bad for a street car

[The Bogan]

You can never have to much power. Mine made 475rwkw. Not bad for a street car

Its not max power Im after, its useable power, was told my turbo would be good for 400ish so hence my question with the max power at 400, my mates GTR has 450ish but takes a week to come on the boil (around 5000rpm I think), good for the drags and the dyno but not so much for the track I feel, mine is making boost at just over 3200ish now (3900 with the old 25 bottom end) but to get 475 I would need a bigger pump which would kill the resonse, I got the bigger bottom end to help with response as it was rubbish in the tight twisties.

So far Im thinking of a tune to around 300 on the low and a max (within reason) on the high.

Thanks for your responses, I need all the help I can get.

Mark (my mum says Im special) Robinson

[Roy]

I say just get it tuned to make what the tuner thinks is right for a track car. Throw your suspension and tyres at the thing and see how it goes. If it simply too much power for the setup then consider winding a bit of boost out of it and soften up the ignition in the meat of the curve but keep it in the top end

My 2c

[Bronx]

how big is turbo etc, want a decent driveable car, look at the average performance car out there, holden r8's ford gt's etc, looking in the 300-350kw, since you wish track, go for about 400kw, nice number, not insane, not low, just nice.

i would say max out your car at 350kw with small turbos, less lag no problems. one thing that drags down turbos, is the turbo lag.

but thats only on street driving, since your tracking your car i doubt you will run below 4k rpm, so get ur turbo to kick in around that.

but its all user pref. from my view i would say a max of 500-550hp.

close to v8 supercars and close to most other circuit cars

[Neil]

Mark,,,I wouldn't be to concerned with how much power you have or can make,,,I would be looking at how much maximum torque you have "where" in the rev range and sticking to that. Sure for fun and giggles have a big horsepower setting,,,but really big usable torque will get you fast times everytime.

Cheers

Neil.

[Bronx]

Mark,,,I wouldn't be to concerned with how much power you have or can make,,,I would be looking at how much maximum torque you have "where" in the rev range and sticking to that. Sure for fun and giggles have a big horsepower setting,,,but really big usable torque will get you fast times everytime.

Cheers

Neil.

agreed, forgot to mention that. more torque the better

[The Bogan]

Thanks guys, Ill let the tuner go for it and talk torque stuff with him.

Again thankyou for your patience.

Mark (I dont have a clue) Robinson

[Neil]

Thanks guys, Ill let the tuner go for it and talk torque stuff with him.

Again thankyou for your patience.

Mark (I dont have a clue) Robinson

No Mark YOU need to take some control,,,I've never ever met a tuner that thinks the more power I show this guy the happier he'll be. That fact you need to get out of his head,,,tell him that while you love the big numbers you really would like a very drivable car with a big degree of safeness. No point running up the numbers,,,maxing out injectors ect. Tell him you will be going to places like Bathurst hill climbs at altitude,,,so you make him back off a bit.

Cheers

Neil.

[Nee-san]

Forgive my nooby questions.

I have a road registered R33 GTS-T with a 25/30 (built), It shall be going in for the final tune soon, as it is now its got around 220 @ 7 psi (EBC is turned off but has another 2 settings, (low and high).

I use R compound semi slick tyres.

I suppose what Im asking is how much power should I look at getting it tuned to, how much power is too much for a RWD car to handle at the track (applying flame suit now).

Yes I know its a very open question with driver ability or lack of said ability, but I dont want it tuned to 400kw if 300kw will do.

I will only be doing supersprints at Wakey or E/C (RIP OP).

I hope someone understands my dribbling.

Thanks, Mark (what the hell am I doing) Robinson

Mate, don't sweat the power too much, the figures people are putting out these days are pretty huge for a race car, consider the group A cars and the power outputs of that era and you will see outputs that people won't even look twice at, and for a street car !

But remember, although those cars were in most cases alot lighter (GT-R in later stages excluded) they were fast for a whole lot of other reasons than pure grunt alone.

[evil_weevil]

Unigroup doing the tuning?

He'll set it up right. my old 33 only made 255rwkw but bucket loads of torque!!

and pulled hard out of corners 3rd gear with the torque

[badhairdave]

Tune it as high as it'll go with an eye towards average power over peak power.

You don't have to use all the power when you take it to the track but at least you know it's safe when you decide to wind it up.

I don't know that there is such a thing as too much power, just too much for your setup

[MrStabby]

The only issue i see is that if you have a 400kw turbo and only run it at 300kw, it will be much less responsive than if you were to run a 300kw turbo. If it were me I'd just get the maximum power that can be had safely. Dont forget that to consider coolant/oil temperature and gearbox/clutch etc in the equation of what's "safe". You can always have less power by backing off the fun pedal or short shifting.

[NickR33]

having gone 3L is a huge benefit, you can just drive through corners in a higher gear using the torque and short shift if you start spinning tyres... just get some decent suspension under it and a mech diff is a must... if you have too much power use some throttle control... because you have 3L you can have a good amount of power that's still nice and progressive... nothing worse than waiting for the power to come on out of a corner and then when it does it tries to put you backwards through the tyre wall

that said 400rwkw will have you buying new tyres every 5 minutes... somewhere from 300-350rwkw would be nice IMO

[Marlin]

Having driven Berry's 34 with circa 520AWKW, I think that is approaching somewhere near enough.

For a daily driver anyway.

[woolls]

I went from 320 to 420 in my circuit R33 gtst and was slower around the track with the extra power. The car was setup ok for 320, but that extra 100 kw made it a dog to drive. Currently trying to get it sorted.

[The Bogan]

Okaly doakaly, Ill tell them that I want it tuned safe for good torque and not to worry about high HP, from what I understand once the torque starts to drop there is no point trying to wring its neck for more HP as I should be changing gear before the torque drops anyway, but if the torque doesnt drop the boost will go up to a safe reasonable level until it does,keeping in mind injectors and the turbo becoming non efficient.

What the internets have told me;

Torque drops=shift just before drop.

Torque stays flat=shift at rev limit which I think will be set at 7000rpm

Torque eases off=shift so next gear is at a higher or same torque level

I wonder what mine will do ?

Also I may have to look at a better (correct size) and more efficient turbo down the track.

Car goes in on the 20 Dec for the tune so once its done Ill throw up a readout.

Thanks again guys

[Roy]

I know nothing about tuning, but engines typically detonate when at peak torque and cylinder pressures are at their highest. So saying tuned for peak torque but safe does not really make sense?!?!? (Does it?) Its probably safeer to throw more ignition in the top end and make more power then it is to chase a bit of mid grunt-torque by running more ignition in the lower revs as it ramps onto boost. Maybe thats not what is being said and I am off base...

Have a think about P = (Torque x RPM) / 5252. So an engine with pretty lazy torque curve, or just really flat curve can still make very good power at higher revs. Its been my experience that whilst turbos help engines a world with torque, they typically respond best to shifting around peak power, not torque.

At the end of the day, if your car is going to see more track work then lazy road kms I would only get the car tuned by a person experienced in that sort of motor and how they behave on the track when things , everything gets hot. He will know more then any of us here on SAU, and at the end of the day he is the one who has to stand by his work in case something goes pear shaped....and in that sad case "the people on SAU told me ... " wont help get the car fixed

[The Bogan]

"the people on SAU told me ... " wont help get the car fixed

LOL, yeah aint that the truth, My car will be tuned at Unigroup and I trust them with it, they got my motor built with me telling them that I want a strong motor that can handle some abuse so they used lots of good bits and peices like a big sump with flappy things and huge drains from the head and other magical bits and peices for oily stuff, its got coolers and others bits and peices for safety.

Im just looking for ideas on things to talk to hem about so we are on the same page, the car will only be used for super sprints so a max of about 3-4 laps so Im hoping that I shouldnt have to many problems with heat and such.

Also this is why Ive posted in motorsport as appossed to forced induction as I fell that the brain cells are slightly more active here.