Walbro 400Lph Problem

[scotty nm35]

I must have been looking at the non HP Walbro current draw.

[XKLABA]

I did look at the non high pressure Walbro and they still don't combine to use less current then gas 400 walbro

And given the difference in flow from two 225s (209 ltr P/H @70psi each ) and the 416 ( 355 ltr P/H @70psi ) they wouldn't be worth the downsides of using twin intake pumps that need it combine to flow enough fuel over an appropriate sized single that will fuel the required amount

[scotty nm35]

The appropriate single intank 416 wasn't available when I installed these 5 years ago, nor was the proof the 255's were ethanol suitable, unlike the petrol Walbro.

Seeing I am using twin rails with twin lines the twin Walbro setup works very well, no down sides at all. Even the cost of two 255's is similar to one 416 e85 pump.

[XKLABA]

I figured that you used twin 255s for that reason, its just you said the very reason you used them was more flow for less current and that statement is less the correct

As for no downsides at all, are you serious, there are a heap of downsides to twin pumps v single

how about you have to buy two pumps instead of one ( I'm not sure what 255s are worth now days but the one in my 32 was $220 6 or 7 years ago where the 460 E85 in my 34 was $180 1 year ago ) then you have to mount two pump intank Instead of one wire two pump hose two pumps ( which isn't hard but still harder then just one, which wouldn't mean anything for you now as yours is already done )

Then unless you run separate lines rails and regs you have to run two one way check valves or run the risk of one pump over powering the other, which reduces the overall flow of both pumps

Aswell if you need two pumps to supply enough fual and you have one pump fail while under power still having one pump running will mean the motor will still run but with out enough fuel to keep fuel pressure up creating a lean situation and possibly blow an engine, at least with a single pump if it fails the motor will just stop

[scotty nm35]

All done, it was me in some old thread that told you guys the non return valve trick as that's what I designed so many years ago. At least if one pump fails it runs on 3 cyl. No down sides in 5+ years on ethanol, I guess you just need to get off your high horse, it was much smarter for me to go this path than the loud external crap you guys were trying to push me into back then.

Like I said, a 255 was and still is worth $100. In my opinion the tank lid should be upgraded in every setup (due to ineffective power terminals) so mounting twin pumps on the new lid assembly is simple, for me at least.

Blowing an engine... Oh no. I have 5 spare VQ25det's here at the moment, but the original VQ is still going after all these years at 30-40psi. Who gives a crap if it lets go... It should have blown years ago.

[XKLABA]

So you do run twin regs aswell so one bank dies incase of pump failure, how did you get it so both rails run exactly the same pressure or did you tune then injectors to compensate for the difference, or are your check valves after the rails before the lines join

Smarter depends on how you are looking at it, and get off my high horse really, I'm glad you are setup like you are and blowing a motor isn't an issue for you but what about the people reading your posts about this topic that aren't able to just throw a motor at it if theirs pops copying your setup which you have made sound so perfect

I have never pushed anyone into anything, I state what I have done and what ever down falls there are to it and not once have I said my Weldon is not unbearably loud but fark if you want massive flow for the current it draws then check out the Weldon 2025a, but not for a daily, it will send you crazy

Nice lid setup, very tidy, luck for me I only use one E85 pump and only as a lift pump so it doesn't draw a lot of current, I just added a -6 and -8 fitting to the factory lid for a to and from line for the surge tank

I have only been looking into fuel setups in the last 1 1/2 - 2 years and I didn't use any advise off the forum for my setup so I don know who " you guys " you are referring to as for taking your advise

You mentioned you could clearly hear or your 255s are not silent, next time you have them out for what ever reason look at getting some intank fuel hose and slip it over the bolts and around the pump under the hose clamp, it should quieten them down some what, just a suggestion and something for you to think about

[XKLABA]

Don't flatter your self about the non return valve idea, we have been using them for more then 20years in the race cars

My brothers car, I don't have a pic of mine in my phone

It runs a VQ35HR with an Albins 5 speed sequential

It has twin pumps but unlike yours each pump is enough to supply the motor and we only run one at a time, we do so incase one fails the car will shut off then we flick two switches, one to turn off failed pump and one to turn on second pump, restart car and continue racing

[scotty nm35]

Smarter depends on how you are looking at it, and get off my high horse really, I'm glad you are setup like you are and blowing a motor isn't an issue for you but what about the people reading your posts about this topic that aren't able to just throw a motor at it if theirs pops copying your setup which you have made sound so perfect

Because it is perfect, for me and my setup. I guess you just don't appreciate the hard work I put into it, designing a failsafe system on my own, using a single reg and return when everyone on here was telling me to go 044's or Weldon noisy crap, and here you are, still trying to tell me it will fail catastrophically, many years after I installed it on my daily.

Would I do it again, hell yeh. Would I fit it to a customers 34, no. I would run the e85 Walbro these days on single rail setups, as I mentioned 30 times in the last year.

Personally I run twin 255's for that very reason, more flow for less current, but they are not ethanol rated. These days I would be dropping an e85 460 in, as I am doing to my evo this week.

I can't see where the recommendation I made was going to make people follow my twin Walbro path, but if they did I am more than willing to give them all the information I learnt. I would however be recommending the e85 Walbro over any pump for intank duties.

I'm glad you are setup like you are and blowing a motor isn't an issue for you but what about the people reading your posts about this topic that aren't able to just throw a motor at it if theirs pops copying your setup which you have made sound so perfect

Anyone tripling the power of their car should be willing to replace a stock engine, that much is common sense.

[XKLABA]

Perfect!!!, I fail to see how but I also don't know what your full setup is

I am curious what your failsafe is and how it works and with a single reg how exactly you expect one bank to shut off if a pump fails ?

As far as I can see from what I've read from your posts the reason you haven't lost an engine is you havent had a pump fail

My weldon might be noisy but I'd hardly call it crap, it does exactly what it is meant to and litres per amp drawn @ given psi is smacks all the walbro pumps

The "Personally I run twin 255's for that very reason, more flow for less current" statement is misleading and gives the impression its the way to go without list what else is to be done to make it work properly or what could go wrong with this setup unless they ask you for it and given the pumps available today you will still do it that way, really?

Agreed, you make the kind of power you are from a stock engine you have to expect it pops at some point and just hope it never does, but to have it pop unnecessarily because you built your fuel system wrong is a different story

[Ben C34]

To seperate the banks and use one reg wouldn't it go

Pump > rail> non return > tee piece to common reg on both sides? Pretty easy.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Ben C34

[Aggroman]

Mick you cant win, scotty is the smartest flamin mongrel in the world and we are just peasents to his powers.. The S in SAU isnt for skylines its for Scott

The sooner we start collectively sucking his dick and stop arguing because he is never wrong the sooner we never have to see any of his posts again. Im seriously amazed at how he gets any work done posting in every god damn thread on this forum with his 2c

Go make some horribly welded intake pipes you top bloke and get off SAU..

yeah report this post i dont give a shit

[XKLABA]

To seperate the banks and use one reg wouldn't it go

Pump > rail> non return > tee piece to common reg on both sides? Pretty easy.

Yes, in theory you are correct, this would be the better way to do it when everything is working as it should and what will happen there if a pump fails is it will shut of the fuel to one rail and effectively shut off one bank, in my experience a motor will last longer with no fuel then some fuel

The problem is this is a practical world and in practise you have a restriction between the rail and the pressure control valve which can create different fuel pressures in the two rails which would mean you should tune the two banks separately which is near impossible with a single turbo

Though given he has had it running like this ( if this is how his is set up ) for 5 years would suggest this isn't an issue for him now, I would still pull the plugs regularly just in case on pump starts dieing and reduces flow to one bank to make sure one side isn't leaning out

[scotty nm35]

Pumps fail all the time, you don't see anyone else worrying about leaning out and unreliable or second hand old pumps. How many of you run a wideband in your daily drivers?

The problem is this is a practical world and in practise you have a restriction between the rail and the pressure control valve which can create different fuel pressures in the two rails which would mean you should tune the two banks separately which is near impossible with a single turbo

There is no restriction in the non return valve, it is a simple flap of fuel resistant rubber, with an 8mm hole. The restriction is the reg with it's 3mm hole.

I guess if someone does something different, it's always going to be wrong in your eyes, but hey, it works for me.

[XKLABA]

Not every body is running 32psi and I have seen it a few times where pumps fail and cost an engine cause of it

Unless your wideband is feeding the ECU and it can react to what it sees then by the time your wideband reads the gases sends the signal to the display and displays it and you see it then react its already to late and you have to do all this while under full boost conditions which is when your setup needs the second pump to be working properly

What do you think shuts the flap, a spring and they all require some pressure to open, may only be one or to two psi but it still has some and that creates a restriction

I have been involved in race cars since I was a young boy and have seen all manner of setups and have learnt over the many years what works and what doesn't, they all work when everything is doing what it is suppose to, its when it goes wrong that you learn where you have got it wrong

Unless your one of those people that builds a powerful car to just DD it with the occasional dyno to show how much power it doesn't make

[scotty nm35]

Not every body is running 32psi and I have seen it a few times where pumps fail and cost an engine cause of it

Running petrol no doubt. E85 is the saviour, it has blessed me many times with its protective properties, allowing me to run 3-4 bar when the wastegate hose popped off and allowing pump surge at the track without melting pistons.

Like I said, if you plan to lean on an engine, be ready for the tears. Anyone thinking it will last forever is just kidding themselves. If it happens to me, I won't be sooking about it, I will have another engine in it the next day. Until then I will keep enjoying driving it hard.

[discopotato03]

Interesting thread , always something to learn by searching . I have a GTR pump and bracket with its high mounted pump and inlet extension hose to the sock strainer . I reckon I have pump or sock probs . 

I'm on 98 atm and out of time to do mods so may fit a Nismo GTR pump if I can get one tomorrow . Scotty I'm interested to hear about the non return valve trick . I'm still interested in the 460 E85 pump but v time poor ATM .

Take care all cheers A .

 

[Hadouken]

This thread takes me back.

[stranger12]

On 27/01/2013 at 11:01 PM, GTR_JOEY said:

I imagine it would do 400rwkw on E85..

I'm running two walbro's on e85, planning on Installing a fuel cooler as it does get warm

out of interest how do you know it gets hot?

[Piggaz]

6 minutes ago, stranger12 said:

out of interest how do you know it gets hot?

The surge tank used to get scorching hot.

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

did you know, your flex sensor actually read fuel temperature too?

And if you have a Zeitronix kit there's an earth trigger that allows it to switch between ethanol % to fuel temperature?

waos