The Complete Ethanol Thread

[Cowboy1600]

Ethanol is becoming the fuel of choice for turbo applications, of that there is little doubt.

For a number of people, it would seem, the only thing holding them back from going down the ethanol path is availability. As sourcing this fuel becomes easier more people will want to go down the E path, myself included. One thing I know I am finding difficult is souring a succinct database of everything ethanol related. There's lots of information on here regarding ethanol, but it tends to be spread all over the place. I figure a number of people are in the same boat as me, interested in ethanol but find getting the right information difficult.

Hence this thread - a central place for questions and answers, explanations, examples and outcomes of all thing ethanol related.

To start things off, what I'd be interested in is a complete ethanol solution. I'm currently running a RB25 neo, and will be upgrading injectors (ID1000s), turbo (HG) and fuel pump soon. I have a PFC already. What would the best way to go about going the ethanol path while still having the ability to run other fuels? I'm interested in an ethanol content meter and datalogit. It'd be nice to have multiple maps which I could switch between depending on ethanol content.

Who's doing it, how have you set it up, what did it cost, what have the results been like, what would/will you change and so on?

What other questions, tips, tricks or suggestions do people have in regards to switching to ethanol?

[Piggaz]

Place the power FC in the bin and buy a ECU that can accept an Ethanol Content Sensor. Most if not all decent ECU's will do it.

ECU alone, it cost roughly $700 for the hardware (lines, sensor, display, fittings). You then have the dyno time (which is where the money is). My own car, I think we had 7 different maps which and it adjusted to suit. No laptops, no plugging this in and checking that, just fill and go!

We started off with a E85 map and kept adding petrol. Every 15% of ethanol we would save a map.

[Cowboy1600]

Place the power FC in the bin and buy a ECU that can accept an Ethanol Content Sensor. Most if not all decent ECU's will do it.

ECU alone, it cost roughly $700 for the hardware (lines, sensor, display, fittings). You then have the dyno time (which is where the money is). My own car, I think we had 7 different maps which and it adjusted to suit. No laptops, no plugging this in and checking that, just fill and go!

We started off with a E85 map and kept adding petrol. Every 15% of ethanol we would save a map.

Ideally that's what I'd like to do. What ECU do you use?

[Piggaz]

Link G4 plug in. However, Autronic SM4 and the Haltechs (not sure if it's model specific) can do it too. I'd assume the Motec's can too but tr amount of people running these are next to none.

Is this going on a GTR? If so, by the time you buy the FC and AFM's you're a few hundred $ below a G4 anyway. It's a no brainer

[GTR_JOEY]

How much did the 7 maps cost all up you reckon Piggaz?

Aaron get the Link G4, great bit of kit

[Cowboy1600]

Going onto an RB25 neo.

I've already got an FC, but would swap it out for something more capable of running multiple maps/adjustment for varying ethanol levels or 98.

[Piggaz]

Joey, seeing that it was Yavuz'a first go it was done a bit cheaper... It's not like they're 'start fresh maps'. I can't give a dollar figure. Too long ago.

[GTR_JOEY]

Yea might give him a call

This thread is a good idea though. Alot of people starting to get into ethanol, the more people the better!!

We should make a sticky/register for places to buy E85 in each state that can be updated by mods as well

[34GeeTeeTee]

I ditched power FC and went Haltech PS2000 wire in, ethanol sensor and wideband then full flex tune... Very expensive path... Worth it for regular driving tho

Regrets, not using boost control with Haltech, instead I opted for a HKS EVC which is proving to be sh*t so far

[gtr jet]

I've got some questions too.

My GT-R's just about back on the road and it's got all the usual basics from my last build.

Built motor, -7's, 3" turbo back exhaust, power fc, 550 sard injectors and a walbro.

I know i can probably make around the 300kw mark with what i have on 98 but would it be worth switching to E85 for a bit more power and the other benefits that come with the fuel?

I know i'll need a bigger fuel pump and injectors but would my exhaust also be holding the car back a bit?

I was just planing on running straight United E85 as i have plenty of local pumps.

What are peoples thoughts? Worth it or not?

[ARTZ]

My Adaptronic 440 does it too and was half the price of your fancy haltech

Also plugged straight in and has built in map...but seems most tuners aren't keen on them yet, still no idea why. NKOTB issue maybe.

cost of my entire engine managementAdaptronic 1200$ (hypergear)Mac solenoid 55$ (eBay)AIT sensor 40$ (repco)That's 1300 for a setup that will do damn near everything the big names will..add an E-sensor for what 300$ and a wideband for 220$ and I still haven't spent 2k..

Go link G4 otherwise..

[Cowboy1600]

My Adaptronic 440 does it too and was half the price of your fancy haltech

Also plugged straight in and has built in map...but seems most tuners aren't keen on them yet, still no idea why. NKOTB issue maybe.

cost of my entire engine managementAdaptronic 1200$ (hypergear)Mac solenoid 55$ (eBay)AIT sensor 40$ (repco)That's 1300 for a setup that will do damn near everything the big names will..add an E-sensor for what 300$ and a wideband for 220$ and I still haven't spent 2k..

Go link G4 otherwise..

Is that a Stao supplied one?

Wait, you answered that a bit further on

Happy with the Adaptronic? Are you running E85 at the moment?

[Cowboy1600]

FYI, Eltham United is listed as having E85 on the United website, but they do not and will not. They dug up the forecourt to install the pumps and line then figured out they have fibreglass tanks. So no E85, ever, at Eltham that's dinted my E85 ambitions and made a setup which can handle both 98 and 85 a must.

[scotty nm35]

Damn, I ran out last time I was in Campbelfield getting a tune and thought I could make it there. Its lucky I didn't rely on that servo for a fill.

I will probably be heading down the flex sensor path soon, not sure how I will go as I am using the Fcon, hopefully there is a 0-5V input spare...

[battery]

How much are people paying for a complete flex tune?? not interested in doing it myself just curious..

[AngryRB]

i know very little bout E85 but from what ive read, the mixture under load doesnt require the same enrichment as normal 98fuel, so is it really that critical to have a different map for the varying percentages.. is it not accurate enough to just tune the car slightly rich to compensate for differing concentrations??

my tuner says he can tune the car with safety to account for lower percentages that may occur at different pumps, so is it really that significant that you need ethanol sensors and to even swap computers for this?

Edited July 11, 2012 by SliverS2

[The Dan]

How much are people paying for a complete flex tune?? not interested in doing it myself just curious..

$1482.35

[Piggaz]

i know very little bout E85 but from what ive read, the mixture under load doesnt require the same enrichment as normal 98fuel, so is it really that critical to have a different map for the varying percentages.. is it not accurate enough to just tune the car slightly rich to compensate for differing concentrations??

my tuner says he can tune the car with safety to account for lower percentages that may occur at different pumps, so is it really that significant that you need ethanol sensors and to even swap computers for this?

For E85 and E0? No.

Between E85 and E '70' that Caltex's "Flex fuel". Yes. I did that for 12 months myself.

[Piggaz]

Seeing that many guys will be going down this path, a parts list might be in order.

- 1 x Ethanol Content Sensor (GM part - Made by Siemens) http://www.zeitronix...r/order.htm#ECA

- 1 x wiring harness from sensor to ECU -or- to Digital -> Analogue ethanol content analyser.

- 1 x ECU. Link, Vipec, Autronic SM4 (Unigroup got that working on one of their cars), Haltech, Motec would all have a ECU that can do it. Power FC CANNOT!

- 1 x Extra wiring harness in the Link G4's case. (Order this when ordering your Link)

- Some extra Fuel lines, braided lines, fittings etc to hook up the sensor to the Fuel lines. I put mine on the return line and have a "tee" in and out branching off the main return. Works fine.

* Optional is the Ethanol Display.

It's $200. I find it handy, especially when tuning, not to mention it's interesting to see what you're actually getting from the pump!

[The Dan]

I'm not sure the Haltech can do that. They can't do aftermarket trigger input from a hall effect sensor in their 'Pro' model or closed loop boost control over wheel speed so I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be able to handle something like that? Can anyone confirm?