Rb26 Into Gtt Is An Engineer Certificate Needed?

[ido09s]

I would argue that the difference is simply a badge.

Can you put a 5.7l V8 into an SV6 Commodore without an engineers cert, its not the same car as an SS by your way of thinking but i am sure as hell they wouldnt bat an eye lid at it

We both know there are subtle chassis differences but thats not what your argument is based around. Your argument is based simply on the fact the boot lid wears a different badge

[GTSBoy]

The chassis differences in Skylines are not subtle. Where the are NO chassis differences of any importance between a V6 and V8 Commode, the front structure of a GTR is completely different to a RWD Skyline. The chassis rails and the subframe are 100% different.

[yeahmate]

just went in to vicroads at bundoora... it's no problem im happy with that

Edited July 31, 2014 by yeahmate

[Kinkstaah]

They're 100% different, but you can front end convert a GTT with GTR panels, and I'm sure you could weld on the rears.

I mean, the subframe is different on the GT and GTT (I mean, no Hicas!). How different does it need to be, to be "different?"

The wording on the law is grey. It insinuates that you should change EVERY component to match the car that the engine came from. Technically for the R34 NA it would mean you have to change to fork style rear end, you must put in a different diff and drive shafts, completely different springs, add HICAS to the car, change the steering rack, put in the GTT brakes, etc.

Are these a trim level on the R34? Is a GTR simply a GT with a different twin turbo engine, wider flares, different bodywork up front, different suspension, diffs, and an AWD system?

By the same definition, you could argue that a HSV Clubsport is as different to a V6 Commodore. It also has a different engine, wildly different more aggressive body work, different suspension, diffs, brakes, etc. But you can put the engine from one into a V6 without a cert.

Base level VE Commodore vs a HSV R8

/devils advocate

I personally think putting a 26 into a GTT is against the 'spirit' of the law, but the actual definition of the law is what counts, and I suppose people who get paid to interpret that definition (i.e lawyers), would have a fair bit to talk about on the subject. But personally I still think the best way to do it, is not have to explain it to anyone.

[GTSBoy]

Still missing the point. You CANNOT convert a RWD Skyline to a 4WD Skyline just by bolting on and off panels. Even at the front. You have to cut off everything forward of the firewall, including the base structure of the car.

If you don't believe me, google up some photos of empty GTR engine bays and empty GTSt engine bays and compare. Then ask an import workshop how much to convert your RWD car to complete GTR running gear.

The difference between HICAS and non-HICAS subframes is completely trivial by comparison. Just a few bolts required to swap from one to the other, and there is no difference between them at all except for the tiny bit about rack mounts on one and mounting points for toe control arms on the other.

Commodores are in no way significantly different between the 6s and 8s. Front structure same. Rear structure same. Only differences are bolt on bits around the edges like brakes and springs rates and the odd suspension bush.

External bodywork has absolutely NOTHING to do with the consideration of what makes a different car, unless the manufacturer sees fit to put different panels on it and then give it a different name.

[XKLABA]

I might be wrong here but I was under the impression you could bolt the GTR subframes into a GT and all the front ends panels bolt on so the only thing I thought had to be cut and shut was the rear panels but every thing else could be bolted on

I don't get the problem with changing from 25 to a 26 as there is only 70cc difference between them, alternatively just change the internals and keep the 25 block, unless you plan on converting it to 4WD there is no need to have the 26 block

[GTSBoy]

I might be wrong here but I was under the impression you could bolt the GTR subframes into a GT and all the front ends panels bolt on so the only thing I thought had to be cut and shut was the rear panels but every thing else could be bolted on

I don't get the problem with changing from 25 to a 26 as there is only 70cc difference between them, alternatively just change the internals and keep the 25 block, unless you plan on converting it to 4WD there is no need to have the 26 block

No. GTR front subframe will not bolt to RWD front chassis rails because it's all different. The GTR subframe is completely different. The inner guards are different (there's openings for driveshafts for a start!).

I also don't think there's an issue with putting a 26 into a RWD car from the point of view of how powerful it is and so on. But that's not what I was objecting to. I was objecting to the claim that it is legal on the basis of telling the rego authorities that the 26 was available in the same chassis, when it isn't true. Given that Victoria is the Nazi state when it comes to modifications, I would expect nothing less than an engineer's report being required to sign off on it, unless there is a provision for the swap to be done without making the claim of "engine available in that chassis", like there is in SA.

Here in SA I put a Neo into an R32 and it was easy enough. Make application to Vehicle Standards, get approval to do conversion with requirement to upgrade brakes. Do conversion, get vehicle identity inspection followed by full roadworthy (so, ride height, wheels & tyres, lights, horn, seat belt, stock ECU and all engine controls, brake test, etc etc etc), sign off. I'm sure that I could put an RB26 into the car on exactly the same basis, but not because I'm claiming that it came in the same chassis; just because it fits and is only X% larger capacity than the original engine. Hell, the Neo is basically the same engine as an RB26 from that point of view - same basic capacity and same power rating. If I wanted to I should be able to do the same with a VQ30DET, possibly with a bit more requirement for brakes. But if I wanted to put an LS3 in it or something that starts to exceed power to weight ratios and whatever else they get to worrying about, then it would need to be engineered.

SA is a weird place for vehicle modifications. We have no regular inspections so there are a lot of shitheaps getting around that are unroadworthy and there are a lot of illegally modified cars getting around. But the Vehicle Standards branch here are smart guys who know what's what and are moderately flexible about what they will approve and what they won't. Do something that they consider reasonable and they will approve it without needing engineering - especially if there is precedent for it being done. Do something that pushes the boundaries and they will tell you what engineering you need done. But you have to make your application to do the work before you do the work so you can know what it is that they will want from you.

[r32-25t]

I agree it's all different, but it make no difference to what the original poster is try to do. Because the r34 skyline was available with an rb26 so putting it in is no issue

[GTSBoy]

I agree it's all different, but it make no difference to what the original poster is try to do. Because the r34 skyline was available with an rb26 so putting it in is no issue

No it wasn't. That's the point. The GTR is not the same car, as far as rego authorities are concerned.

[XKLABA]

Ok so what your saying is there is

1) An R34 Skyline GT and GT-t

2) An R34 Skyline GTR

And these two model cars are a completely different model from each other as far as model codes go

[GTSBoy]

Yes. Although it is confusing once you factor in what the various letters in the model codes mean. There is a letter meaning RB20, one meaning RB25, one meaning RB26. There is a letter for RWD without HICAS and a letter for RWD with HICAS and one for 4WD (although that really means ATTESSA+HICAS).

Ever wondered what the B in BNR34 means? Or the H in HR32?

The confusing crossover is the presence of non GTR 4WD cars like the GTS4s.

But....model codes are not the defining feature. The defining feature is that there is a large difference in the chassis between 4WD cars and RWD cars and they are therefore treated as if they are different cars by the authorities.

[r32-25t]

They are r34 skylines and both have the rb series engine and in the eyes of the rta/rms/Vic roads and who ever else matters registration wise they are the same car and swapping the engine isn't an issue because no chassis modifications are required to fit the engine.

And if you check your rego papers no where on them does it say Gtr, gt or gtt or any other model

So to them it's a 99 skyline

[GTSBoy]

It's still a lie to tell them that it came in "that chassis" when it didn't.

[r32-25t]

It still doesn't matter

[Ben C34]

Getting away with something is seriously different to doing it properly.....

[r32-25t]

There is nothing illegal about it and is well within the rules written by the rrms

[Ben C34]

Same same but different.

Boost off into the sunset . Suckers!

[dr phil]

So what about putting an RB26 in an ENR34 then? Ie 25GT FOUR, and brakes, suspension etc.

[GTSBoy]

That's one where you could walk up and say "this engine was available in that chassis".

[yeahmate]

like r32-25t said there all r34 skylines.. when a cop pulls me over for example they bring up on there screen my rego and get "1999 skyline sedan / colour blue vin bnr34XXX and eng number rb26XXX.. doesnt tell em if its turbo, or na