Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi guys I'm reposting from here and here as this is going a bit beyond the scope of the original threads.

Anyway I've just had the Driftworks oil cooler kit install completed on my R34 GTT:

  • Mocal/MIH 19 row Oil Cooler
  • Mocal 92 degree thermostatic sandwich plate
  • Braided oil cooler hoses
  • Sandwich plate fittings

The cooler seems to work well - in fact too well - as I can't seem to get my oil temp up to the recommended range even after a long drive.

Test drives so far (all light cruising until I sort out the temps):

  • Melbourne to Torquay, 1.5h freeway, Defi oil temp is reading 55-60 degrees, ambient temp just under 20
  • Torquay to Melbourne, oil temp ~60 degrees, ambient temp 25
  • Suburban driving, slower speed, oil temp 55-64 degrees, ambient temp 25

...

I can think of a couple of potential causes:

1. Maybe the thermostatic wax pellet in the sandwich plate is not working and the cooler circuit is stuck open or opens too early? Trying the core by hand it's hot but not unbearable. It's definitely flowing a lot of oil during each drive, and well below the expected 92 C opening mark. Also driving a couple of k's from cold start you can feel the oil cooler feed hose getting warm straight away whilst return stays cool.

2. I previously had the temp sensor in a separate sandwich plate with oil flowing through it. For this install the workshop removed the factory pressure sensor and teed off that point – I'm guessing this might be after the filter as opposed to before, which would explain the lower reading?

Here's how the Defi temp sensor is sitting at the OEM oil pressure sensor location (the other end of the T-piece is currently blank waiting for the Defi pressure sensor):

24160402470_0ab647bd3b.jpg

I did some quick temp measurements off the sump earlier tonight (externally using a laser thermometer) and found the following:

  • Defi oil temp reading 53C – sump 68-70C
  • Defi oil temp reading 61C – sump 76C
  • Defi oil temp reading 64C – sump 75C

This might support the theory that the OEM oil pressure sensor point is not ideal for getting oil temps?

What do you guys think: a faulty thermostat, incorrect temp sensor location, or both?

There will always be some oil circulating through the cooler.

What was your oil temp before you installed the cooler?

Use your laser thermometer to track flow through your sandwich plate and see if you have picked the wrong spot for your sensor.

The big difference between the sump temp and oil gauge temp suggests the cooler is not overcooling.

There will always be some oil circulating through the cooler.

What was your oil temp before you installed the cooler?

Use your laser thermometer to track flow through your sandwich plate and see if you have picked the wrong spot for your sensor.

The big difference between the sump temp and oil gauge temp suggests the cooler is not overcooling.

Yep I spoke with a Mocal distributor today and they explained the same thing that a certain % is always going through the cooler.

What I'm wondering though is if I have the right thermostatic pellet in the sandwich plate, since it seems like it's not just a trickle going through it? Assuming the temp sensor is currently post-cooler (as opposed to previously pre-cooler) it looks like I'm getting a pretty significant temperature drop at temps well below the previous standard operating temp.

Oil temps before the oil cooler installation were 80-90 degrees in normal driving. The same Defi sensor was sitting in a (different) sandwich plate so the oil was flowing through it, as opposed to sitting at the 'end of the line' like it is now.

So your oil temps were perfect, before the cooler was fitted.

Put a sheet of cardboard over the cooler and see what your temps read.

If back to normal id say the unit is open allowing full cooling.

If the same low reading, wrong location.

There is no flow over your Defi temperature sensor!!!!!!!!!!! It is not measuring the temperature of the oil flowing in the system. It is measuring the temperature of the oil in that dead leg, which being brass, will lose heat and be cooler than the rest of the circuit.

/basic physics.

  • Like 1

So your oil temps were perfect, before the cooler was fitted.

Put a sheet of cardboard over the cooler and see what your temps read.

If back to normal id say the unit is open allowing full cooling.

If the same low reading, wrong location.

Correct, the oil temp was always spot on in street driving.

At the track the temps shot up to 120C after pretty much a single hot lap, though this was on a 37C day.

I'm yet to try blocking the cooler, good idea, I will aim to do that tomorrow.

There is no flow over your Defi temperature sensor!!!!!!!!!!! It is not measuring the temperature of the oil flowing in the system. It is measuring the temperature of the oil in that dead leg, which being brass, will lose heat and be cooler than the rest of the circuit.

/basic physics.

Ok so exactly as I thought, thanks mate!

Next question: Where do people place the temp sensor for an accurate reading with this type of sandwich plate? It doesn't have a sensor port.

As far as I can figure the options are:

  1. Run an inline AN10 male-female fitting with a sensor port – is there enough oil flow in the cooler circuit at <thermostat temp for this to work reliably?
  2. Run a second sandwich plate for the sensor – not ideal
  3. Drill a sensor bung in the sump – sounds like a big sump-off job
  4. Get a Greddy/GREX sandwich plate that has both a thermostat and fittings for temp/pressure sensors – not ideal since I already have a sandwich plate

Would option 1 work? Any other suggestions?

I drilled and welded a bung on the oem oil filter bracket to install the sensor.

Thanks mate, that seems like a good solution.

I've just ordered this AN10 inline sensor fitting, might try that first: http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/AN10-10AN-JIC-FEMALE-to-MALE-GAUGE-SENSOR-FITTING-ADAPTER-1-8-NPT-PORT-BLACK-/231353204035

Keen not to swap the sandwich plate again as I already have the previous one sitting on the shelf..

Why no plug it into the stock location after the oil return ?

I didn't realise there was a stock oil temp location on the RB25DET? Whereabouts is that?

I have a Greddy/GREX sandwich plate and have the oil temp and pressure sensors stuck in there.

It might be easiest (and best) to sell your sandwich plate and invest in one with pre-tapped sensor holes.

Do it once, do it right!

  • Like 2

I have a Greddy/GREX sandwich plate and have the oil temp and pressure sensors stuck in there.

It might be easiest (and best) to sell your sandwich plate and invest in one with pre-tapped sensor holes.

Do it once, do it right!

I would tend to agree :) The one thing I like better about the Mocal one is the 92C thermostat (if it works?!) - I believe the Greddy plate comes with a 80C one.

What temps are you seeing in normal driving over summer?

Just block it off with cardboard or plastic. For daily driver you don't need it.

I've considered that too, the issue being that it sits between the rad and intercooler so would block off airflow to other components as well...

Put a fitting on the side of the sump and run the sensor in the sump. It will be the closest to correct oil temp without putting it into a new/doubled sandwich plate. it's currently reading at least 10°C low, which is only so useful.

I would tend to agree :) The one thing I like better about the Mocal one is the 92C thermostat (if it works?!) - I believe the Greddy plate comes with a 80C one.

What temps are you seeing in normal driving over summer?

Yup, it opens around 80C. I see temps around the 80-85C mark in summer with just normal suburban driving.

Temps go up to around 110-115C on track with mild (~20-25C) weather.

  • Like 1

This is what ive always used to get a sensor into the sump

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OIL-TEMP-GAUGE-SUMP-PLUG-ADAPTOR-FOR-NISSAN-S13-S14-SR20-SKYLINE-R32-R33-R34-ASQ-/121748884691?hash=item1c58cc8cd3:g:It8AAOSw3xJVbtGl

Just put a plug onto your sensor wiring so you can disconnect it for oil changes...

That's pretty cool. So many options!

So your oil temps were perfect, before the cooler was fitted.

Put a sheet of cardboard over the cooler and see what your temps read.

If back to normal id say the unit is open allowing full cooling.

If the same low reading, wrong location.

Just block it off with cardboard or plastic. For daily driver you don't need it.

I did a run with the oil cooler blocked off, suburban speeds, ambient temp 20C:

  • Defi oil temp reading 67C – sump 80C

So it's about 5C higher at both points than with the cooler unblocked. Note this is in slow speeds so the cooler wouldn't be very efficient anyway.

The temp sensor is definitely in the wrong spot, I'll get that sorted. The jury is still out on how well the sandwich plate thermostat is working.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • I did end up getting it sorted, as GTSBoy said, there was a corroded connection and wire that needed to be replaced. I ended up taking out the light assembly, giving everything a good clean and re-soldered the old joints, and it came out good.
    • Wow, thanks for your help guys 🙏. I really appreciate it. Thanks @Rezz, if i fail finding any new or used, full or partial set of original Stage carpets i will come back to you for sure 😉 Explenation is right there, i just missed it 🤦‍♂️. Thanks for pointing out. @soviet_merlin in the meantime, I received a reply from nengun, and i quote: "Thanks for your message and interest in Nengun. KG4900 is for the full set of floor mats, while KG4911 is only the Driver's Floor Mat. FR, RH means Front Right Hand Side. All the Full Set options are now discontinued. However, the Driver's Floor Mat options are still available according to the latest information available to us. We do not know what the differences would be, but if you only want the one mat, we can certainly see what we can find out for you". Interesting. It seems they still have some "new old stock" that Duncan mentioned 🤔. I wonder if they can provide any photos......And i also just realized that amayama have G4900 sets. I'm tempted too. 
    • Any update on this one? did you manage to get it fixed?    i'm having the same issue with my r34 and i believe its to do with the smart entry (keyless) control module but cant be sure without forking out to get a replacement  
    • So this being my first contribution to the SAU forums, I'd like to present and show how I had to solve probably one of the most annoying fixes on any car I've owned: replacing a speedometer (or "speedo") sensor on my newly acquired Series 1 Stagea 260RS Autech Version. I'm simply documenting how I went about to fix this issue, and as I understand it is relatively rare to happen to this generation of cars, it is a gigantic PITA so I hope this helps serve as reference to anyone else who may encounter this issue. NOTE: Although I say this is meant for the 260RS, because the gearbox/drivetrain is shared with the R33 GTR with the 5-speed manual, the application should be exactly the same. Background So after driving my new-to-me Stagea for about 1500km, one night while driving home the speedometer and odometer suddenly stopped working. No clunking noise, no indication something was broken, the speedometer would just stop reading anything and the odometer stopped going up. This is a huge worry for me, because my car is relatively low mileage (only 45k km when purchased) so although I plan to own the car for a long time, a mismatched odometer reading would be hugely detrimental to resale should the day come to sell the car. Thankfully this only occurred a mile or two from home so it wasn't extremely significant. Also, the OCD part of me would be extremely irked if the numbers that showed on my dash doesn't match the actual ageing of the car. Diagnosing I had been in communication with the well renown GTR shop in the USA, U.P.garage up near University Point in Washington state. After some back and forth they said it could be one of two things: 1) The speedometer sensor that goes into the transfer case is broken 2) The actual cluster has a component that went kaput. They said this is common in older Nissan gauge clusters and that would indicate a rebuild is necessary. As I tried to figure out if it was problem #1, I resolved problem #2 by sending my cluster over to Relentless Motorsports in Dallas, TX, whom is local to me and does cluster and ECU rebuilds. He is a one man operation who meticulously replaces every chip, resistor, capacitor, and electronic component on the PCB's on a wide variety of classic and modern cars. His specialty is Lexus and Toyota, but he came highly recommended by Erik of U.P.garage since he does the rebuilds for them on GTR clusters.  For those that don't know, on R32 and R33 GTR gearboxes, the speedometer sensor is mounted in the transfer case and is purely an analog mini "generator" (opposite of an alternator essentially). Based on the speed the sensor spins it generates an AC sine wave voltage up to 5V, and sends that via two wires up to the cluster which then interprets it via the speedometer dial. The signal does NOT go to the ECU first, the wiring goes to the cluster first then the ECU after (or so I'm told).  Problems/Roadblocks I first removed the part from the car on the underside of the transfer case (drain your transfer case fluid/ATF first, guess who found out that the hard way?), and noted the transfer case fluid was EXTREMELY black, most likely never changed on my car. When attempting to turn the gears it felt extremely gritty, as if something was binding the shaft from rotating properly. I got absolutely no voltage reading out of the sensor no matter how fast I turned the shaft. After having to reflow the solder on my AFM sensors based on another SAU guide here, I attempted to disassemble the silicone seal on the back of the sensor to see what happened inside the sensor; turns out, it basically disintegrated itself. Wonderful. Not only had the electrical components destroyed themselves, the magnetic portion on what I thought was on the shaft also chipped and was broken. Solution So solution: find a spare part right? Wrong. Nissan has long discontinued the proper sensor part number 32702-21U19, and it is no longer obtainable either through Nissan NSA or Nissan Japan. I was SOL without proper speed or mileage readings unless I figured out a way to replace this sensor. After tons of Googling and searching on SAU, I found that there IS however a sensor that looks almost exactly like the R33/260RS one: a sensor meant for the R33/R34 GTT and GTS-T with the 5 speed manual. The part number was 25010-21U00, and the body, plug, and shaft all looked exactly the same. The gear was different at the end, but knowing the sensor's gear is held on with a circlip, I figured I could just order the part and swap the gears. Cue me ordering a new part from JustJap down in Kirrawee, NSW, then waiting almost 3 weeks for shipping and customs clearing. The part finally arrives and what did I find? The freaking shaft lengths don't match. $&%* I discussed with Erik how to proceed, and figuring that I basically destroyed the sensor trying to get the shaft out of the damaged sensor from my car. we deemed it too dangerous to try and attempt to swap shafts to the correct length. I had to find a local CNC machinist to help me cut and notch down the shaft. After tons of frantic calling on a Friday afternoon, I managed to get hold of someone and he said he'd be able to do it over half a week. I sent him photos and had him take measurements to match not only the correct length and notch fitment, but also a groove to machine out to hold the retentive circlip. And the end result? *chef's kiss* Perfect. Since I didn't have pliers with me when I picked up the items, I tested the old gear and circlip on. Perfect fit. After that it was simply swapping out the plug bracket to the new sensor, mount it on the transfer case, refill with ATF/Nissan Matic Fluid D, then test out function. Thankfully with the rebuilt cluster and the new sensor, both the speedometer and odometer and now working properly!   And there you have it. About 5-6 weeks of headaches wrapped up in a 15 minute photo essay. As I was told it is rare for sensors of this generation to die so dramatically, but you never know what could go wrong with a 25+ year old car. I HOPE that no one else has to go through this problem like I did, so with my take on a solution I hope it helps others who may encounter this issue in the future. For the TL;DR: 1) Sensor breaks. 2) Find a replacement GTT/GTS-T sensor. 3) Find a CNC machinist to have you cut it down to proper specs. 4) Reinstall then pray to the JDM gods.   Hope this guide/story helps anyone else encountering this problem!
    • So this being my first contribution to the SAU forums, I'd like to present and show how I had to solve probably one of the most annoying fixes on any car I've owned: replacing a speedometer (or "speedo") sensor on my newly acquired Series 1 Stagea 260RS Autech Version. I'm simply documenting how I went about to fix this issue, and as I understand it is relatively rare to happen to this generation of cars, it is a gigantic PITA so I hope this helps serve as reference to anyone else who may encounter this issue. NOTE: Although I say this is meant for the 260RS, because the gearbox/drivetrain is shared with the R33 GTR with the 5-speed manual, the application should be exactly the same. Background So after driving my new-to-me Stagea for about 1500km, one night while driving home the speedometer and odometer suddenly stopped working. No clunking noise, no indication something was broken, the speedometer would just stop reading anything and the odometer stopped going up. This is a huge worry for me, because my car is relatively low mileage (only 45k km when purchased) so although I plan to own the car for a long time, a mismatched odometer reading would be hugely detrimental to resale should the day come to sell the car. Thankfully this only occurred a mile or two from home so it wasn't extremely significant. Also, the OCD part of me would be extremely irked if the numbers that showed on my dash doesn't match the actual ageing of the car. Diagnosing I had been in communication with the well renown GTR shop in the USA, U.P.garage up near University Point in Washington state. After some back and forth they said it could be one of two things: 1) The speedometer sensor that goes into the transfer case is broken 2) The actual cluster has a component that went kaput. They said this is common in older Nissan gauge clusters and that would indicate a rebuild is necessary. As I tried to figure out if it was problem #1, I resolved problem #2 by sending my cluster over to Relentless Motorsports in Dallas, TX, whom is local to me and does cluster and ECU rebuilds. He is a one man operation who meticulously replaces every chip, resistor, capacitor, and electronic component on the PCB's on a wide variety of classic and modern cars. His specialty is Lexus and Toyota, but he came highly recommended by Erik of U.P.garage since he does the rebuilds for them on GTR clusters.  For those that don't know, on R32 and R33 GTR gearboxes, the speedometer sensor is mounted in the transfer case and is purely an analog mini "generator" (opposite of an alternator essentially). Based on the speed the sensor spins it generates an AC sine wave voltage up to 5V, and sends that via two wires up to the cluster which then interprets it via the speedometer dial. The signal does NOT go to the ECU first, the wiring goes to the cluster first then the ECU after (or so I'm told).  Problems/Roadblocks I first removed the part from the car on the underside of the transfer case (drain your transfer case fluid/ATF first, guess who found out that the hard way?), and noted the transfer case fluid was EXTREMELY black, most likely never changed on my car. When attempting to turn the gears it felt extremely gritty, as if shttps://imgur.com/6TQCG3xomething was binding the shaft from rotating properly. After having to reflow the solder on my AFM sensors based on another SAU guide here, I attempted to disassemble the silicone seal on the back of the sensor to see what happened inside the sensor; turns out, it basically disintegrated itself. Wonderful. Not only had the electrical components destroyed themselves, the magnetic portion on what I thought was on the shaft also chipped and was broken. Solution So solution: find a spare part right? Wrong. Nissan has long discontinued the proper sensor part number 32702-21U19, and it is no longer obtainable either through Nissan NSA or Nissan Japan. I was SOL without proper speed or mileage readings unless I figured out a way to replace this sensor. After tons of Googling and searching on SAU, I found that there IS however a sensor that looks almost exactly like the R33/260RS one: a sensor meant for the R33/R34 GTT and GTS-T with the 5 speed manual. The part number was 25010-21U00, and the body, plug, and shaft all looked exactly the same. The gear was different at the end, but knowing the sensor's gear is held on with a circlip, I figured I could just order the part and swap the gears. Cue me ordering a new part from JustJap down in Kirrawee, NSW, then waiting almost 3 weeks for shipping and customs clearing. The part finally arrives and what did I find? The freaking shaft lengths don't match. $&%* I discussed with Erik how to proceed, and figuring that I basically destroyed the sensor trying to get the shaft out of the damaged sensor from my car. we deemed it too dangerous to try and attempt to swap shafts to the correct length. I had to find a local CNC machinist to help me cut and notch down the shaft. After tons of frantic calling on a Friday afternoon, I managed to get hold of someone and he said he'd be able to do it over half a week. I sent him photos and had him take measurements to match not only the correct length and notch fitment, but also a groove to machine out to hold the retentive circlip. And the end result? *chef's kiss* Perfect. Since I didn't have pliers with me when I picked up the items, I tested the old gear and circlip on. Perfect fit. After that it was simply swapping out the plug bracket to the new sensor, mount it on the transfer case, refill with ATF/Nissan Matic Fluid D, then test out function. Thankfully with the rebuilt cluster and the new sensor, both the speedometer and odometer and now working properly!   And there you have it. About 5-6 weeks of headaches wrapped up in a 15 minute photo essay. As I was told it is rare for sensors of this generation to die so dramatically, but you never know what could go wrong with a 25+ year old car. I HOPE that no one else has to go through this problem like I did, so with my take on a solution I hope it helps others who may encounter this issue in the future. For the TL;DR: 1) Sensor breaks. 2) Find a replacement GTT/GTS-T sensor. 3) Find a CNC machinist to have you cut it down to proper specs. 4) Reinstall then pray to the JDM gods.   Hope this guide/story helps anyone else encountering this problem!
×
×
  • Create New...