Springs/Suspension Shop Stuff Around

[MikeR34GTT]

Springs/Suspension Shop Stuff Around

Hello experts,

So in short, I've vowed to take the lowering spring/shock combo over the coilovers option and have weighed this up and researched it for ages. So that's that out of the way before anyone recommends coilovers for my daily driver.

I'd had my car booked in to fit 50mm lowering springs (Kings) and some work done to custom fit a Venom 5"cat," for two weeks now, only to get a call the night before to say they don't make springs to drop 50mm and would have to get 30mm's and compress them, taking weeks and more $$$ and generally frustrating me.

Im now thinking about sourcing my own springs (Tein S Techs) but the drop rate is very vague - 15 to 50mm.

I'd also stumbled across these in my research and was wondering if anyone had any experience between the two: http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/performance/coilover-suspension-kits/car/nissan/skyline-r34-gt-t/tein-street-advance-coilover-suspension-kit-lowers-front-35-55mm-and-lowers-rear-25-45mm

Ideally, I've chosen my lowering path and honestly didn't think it was going to be this hard to just lower my car up to 50mm.

What are my options in your opinion, sticking with a springs/shock option. Source my own springs and supply? Different brand of springs supply by them?

FYI the quote I got: $210 per set for springs, up to $330 in labour to fit because they have to go through the back seats and up to $150 to custom fit my 5" venom cat (welding required, flanges don't match) - up to $900 total.

[V28VX37]

Are you going to run stock shocks? 50mm drop is significant, your stock shocks will struggle and start leaking before long (mine did).

I had King Springs (can't remember exact code) on my R34 sedan and the drop was ~33mm front and ~38mm rear. The rear was super low, to the level that it was annoying.

Also with a 50mm drop you will end up with heaps of negative camber so will have worse traction and chew tyres. The OEM adjustment is not enough to fix that. Two choices: you can go eccentric bushes to get some relief (I did this first, the installation sucks), then realise that it's not enough, and go full adjustable arms (I ended up with this).

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Ideally, I've chosen my lowering path and honestly didn't think it was going to be this hard to just lower my car up to 50mm.

I'm afraid it is. Due to the suspension design on these cars, to drop them properly means coilovers and a full set of adjustable arms (front camber arms, front castor rods, rear camber arms, rear tension/traction rods, ideally HICAS lock bar/delete). It's a minimum 2k job, typically more.

[GTofuS-T]

Agree with above, lowing on stock suspension is not only stressing the strut but also reducing it's travel significantly.

Regardless of that:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NISSAN-SKYLINE-R33-R34-FRONT-REAR-SUPER-LOW-50mm-COIL-KING-SPRINGS-/151270647149?hash=item23386ee56d:m:mal3q8vkySuC55mzRvla1cg

Say they're King Springs and 50 mm "super low" maybe ring King Springs and see if that's a genuine product, I can't seem to find anything on their site, but may be discontinued stock.

[MikeR34GTT]

Stock shocks for a month or two, then I'll fit aftermarket shocks (KYB) when I can tuck some funds away.

Contact Kings, they themselves say they don't offer 50mm on skylines due to the problems listed above, suspension travel etc.

I will look into the Teins for now, and go from there I guess. Honestly thinking about fitting BC coilovers and being done with it 

[MikeR34GTT]

Update:

Have found a seller for a set of GTT Tein Coilovers in good condition, no leaks or knocks. 

Am I still in for all of the above problems if I were to purchase these and NOT lower to 50mm (sounds painful albeit anyway), more to 35-40mm?

[Duncan]

Yeah look the basic issue is you are trying to go lower than the geometry allows for. suppliers have worked that out and don't make it because few people really want such a big drop, and those that try it will generally be unhappy with the results.

It's your call for sure, but there's a reason people don't make that drop off the shelf. If you want to go there you'll need custom springs, and the standard shocks (or kyb or similar stock replacements) will not be firm enough to suit so the ride will be bouncy.

If you want to go that low with well matched shocks and springs you should go aftermarket airbags. If you want to go that low and have it handle OK (eg not be unpredictable under bumps) it would cost 000s in custom suspension geometry.

Basically, if you want to go this way just buy cheap coil overs, drop them as low as possible and see what you think. springs and shocks need to work together, and standard shocks will not support what you are looking for.

[GTSBoy]

Don't do this.  It is just so f**ked up to plan to lower a car to far below the legal limit, far below the point where you will be dragging its guts on the ground everywhere you go, far below where you will f**k up your suspension geometry and turn it into something that rides and corners like a sack truck.  Just don't do it.

Drop to legal height.  This coincidentally is where the suspension is about as low as it can go and still work properly.  This is about an eyebrow height of 340-350mm (depends on R32/3/4).  Don't do this work in stages.  Doing it that way is dumb f**k stupid.  If you're not doing the work yourself you're paying someone to take it all apart more than once.  Save up, buy the springs and dampers (there's no such thing as a shock absorber) or the coilovers, when you can afford to do it all at once.  Don't buy secondhand coilovers if you're not prepared for them to be f**ked in some way that you can't see until after you've fitted them and tried to drive on them.  50%** of such transactions work out that way.  **Invented statistic that is nonetheless probably correct.

Doing this the wrong way will cost you $700 and make you either hate yourself or mistakenly think you've done the best thing ever.....until you try to keep up with someone with real suspension.  Doing everything you need to do will cost you at least $2k and you should reckon on it being a lot more than that if you have to buy a lot of arms to correct geometry.

Ordinarily I would suggest, based on your opening comments, that you should buy a set of Bilstein B6s from SydneyKid and suitable Kings springs.  However, these days I think the smart approach would have to be to look at some of the locally made coilover kits that seem to provide excellent performance for the money, but aren't going to come in at the same price as secondhand Jap coilovers.

Oh, and yes.  There's nothing magic about coilovers that fixes the geometry problems that result from going too low.  They just make it easier to go too low.

[MrStabby]

I'm worried you might be headed for problems. The coilovers are a much better option than lowered springs, which will likely ruin whatever shocks you have, new or old. Search on here for SydneyKid's thread about using lowered springs with stock shocks for details.

Also, when you lower, you change the suspension geometry, so you will need various sets of adjustable arms/bushes to just be able to get the alignment back to where it should be. There are old SydneyKid threads that say how much extra kit you need for what height - the lower you go, the more extra kit you need.

[MikeR34GTT]

You guys rule. Got a pretty decent idea about what I'd be getting myself into, and I'm not about geometry or spending more money than I need to in general so I'm just gonna go with you guys here.

Coilovers, legal height drop = done, so I can be done with suspension and cosmetics and focus on my engine/power mods

Thanks all

[MikeR34GTT]

Problem solved!

[Kinkstaah]

Is this the first instance of someone actually listening to forum advice and taking the correct path? 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

The best way to lower a car is by using drop spindles.

Stock geometry!