R33 vs WRX

[pentae]

zymotic is on the money.

The silvia will smoke the shit out of both of these cars mod for mod.

[Mik]

zymotic is on the money.

The silvia will smoke the shit out of both of these cars mod for mod.

I beg to differ.

Take a GC8 STI. Put a turbo back exhaust on it and a power FC...that's it.

Low-mid 12s at >110mph all day every day. I know because I've done it.

Pretty damn hard to do that in an S15.

Also, I don't know why people think a WRX has no torque. A WRX makes more torque than a GTSt.

[zymotic]

and how much does the sti cost? bit more than $30k...

the S15 sounds to be lots closer to his budget and imho

looks much nicer. its not hard to do low mid 12's in S15

all day everyday albiet you will need more mods but if

something goes bang much cheaper to fix. imho the

S15 is all round better proposition. esp for <30k.

anyway we all know that a well sorted rotary will eat all

these vehicles in straight lines.

[Mik]

and how much does the sti cost? bit more than $30k... 

the S15 sounds to be lots closer to his budget and imho

looks much nicer. its not hard to do low mid 12's in S15 

all day everyday albiet you will need more mods but if 

something goes bang much cheaper to fix. imho the 

S15 is all round better proposition. esp for <30k.

anyway we all know that a well sorted rotary will eat all 

these vehicles in straight lines.

I sold my STI nearly a year ago for around 30k and it was a prime example with only 40000kms. You can pick up average ones for high twenties.

It's pretty damn hard to get an S15 into the lows 12s...especially on street tyres.

Why would the STI be any more expensive to work on than the S15? Subarus are so easy to work on and parts prices are comparable to nissan.

[Gonad Man]

I'll come straight out and admit I've had an MY00 WRX, an RS Liberty, my wife's got a Forester GT turbo and I've got an MY02 STi. I'm definitely biased.

I can't comment on the R33 GTST as I've never owned or driven one but I can comment on the MY00 WRX.

For starters, anyone who describes a WRX as an understeering pig clearly cannot drive. My old WRX was one of the most adjustable, neutral and easy cars to back into a corner I've ever owned. In fact, I'd say the balance of my old car was better than my new STi. Sure it will understeer under power but trail braking into a corner, flicking it sideways and powering out should bring a smile to any performance car enthusiast's face.

WRXs have got a tendency to snap-oversteer on lift-off and under a trailing brake and anyone who hasn't seen this happen has never been to the track. No shortage of WRXs spinning around.

Price-wise I sold my 2000 WRX a year ago for $21k and it was still in fantastic condition. Sure they are more expensive new but this is not a valid comparison as you can't get a new GTST.

The MY99/00 WRXs were the quickest standard WRX around for a few years. They have been documented as running a high 13s 1/4 by several publications.

Please don't think this post is a put-down of GTSTs, it's not. I think the GTST (GTS-25T?) is a great basis for mods. I've seen what Duncan and Fatz managed to get out of Duncan's car and I'm very impressed. Duncan's car managed a 1:10 at Wakefield (now that's a REAL measure of a performance car IMHO) and it was very mildly modified.

Anyway that's my 2 bob.

Cheers!

...Ben

[scathing]

I'll come straight out and admit I've had an MY00 WRX, an RS Liberty, my wife's got a Forester GT turbo and I've got an MY02 STi. I'm definitely biased.

For starters, anyone who describes a WRX as an understeering pig clearly cannot drive. My old WRX was one of the most adjustable, neutral and easy cars to back into a corner I've ever owned. In fact, I'd say the balance of my old car was better than my new STi.

Have you ever owned a RWD car? Because if that's the total list of vehicles you own, I'm not surprised you think a standard WRX isn't all that understeery.

I'm sure compared to an RS Liberty and Forester GT the WRX turns in a lot better, but that's not saying much. You might as well say that your 4WD cars turn in better than a RWD bus.

A lot of cars snap oversteer when you pop off the throttle, or trail the brakes. ****, I've gotten an entry model 4-pot Camry to oversteer doing that; lets see you try and convince everyone that a Camry isn't a lead-tipped arrow. Its just basic physics.

Whether a car's understeery, neutral or oversteery is how it behaves at the limit on minor adjustments to throttle and brake, not when you suddenly make major weight shift changes to the car, unloading the rear.

Question is, why did you lift off so suddenly? Is it perhaps because you've gone in too hot into a corner and the nose is pushing, and you're trying to tuck it back on line? Hmm.............

As for your intentionally sliding it through a corner example...you don't need an oversteery car to do that. Most drifters run tight 2 way or locked diffs, which make the car quite understeery. The difference is they don't ever intend to drive the cars on the limit of adhesion. They just make it go sideways with a variety of ham-fisted methods (handbraking, compression locking, etc), but because the nose wants to push the car's less likely to spin when they keep giving it lots of throttle. Slight understeer works better for the novice drifter who needs to work on throttle control.

If you want to actually compare cars' attitudes, try this. Head up to a nice twisty road with long sweeping corners that you're familiar with. Get the car's cornering speed up to the point where the tyres are starting to squeal, and then gently modulate the throttle.

Aside from a WRX, I'd recommend trying it in these cars:

Nissan Silvia

RenaultSport Clio or Honda Integra Type-R

Just so you can get an idea of the different drivetrains.

The Silvia's a lot lighter and shorter than the Skyline so it'll be more responsive, and the Clio and Teggy are amazingly neutral cars at the limit (the former will lift off oversteer savagely, the latter is a bit more progressive), especially considering they're bum draggers.

[siksII]

a stock 99 model wrx will destroy any stock gtst in a straight line, around corners, and in any weather conditions.

i have driven a stock wrx and heaps of stock gtst's so know from experience.

[TTT]

man there is some dribble here..

and from what I remember, in the last r33 v wrx thread.

I'll bring up a few points to ponder.

1.) someone go out and find the TORQUE figures for a R33 gtst and MY03 WRX

2.) JAZZA has no idea and should try to remain quiet and learn something in this thread.

3.) hardly anyone tried to actually answer this guys questions..

My mate has just brought a MY03 auto WRX. I have been thinking about buying a R33 for a while now. Will a stock R33 be quicker or will he whoop my ass?

assuming it's talking about 2 mates racing, I'd say you are talking about on public roads from the lights and so forth like most tools out there.

answer will be that you're stock R33 gtst will lose to his auto rex.

exhaust, filter, bit of boost from your r33 against his stock rex will probably be about the same from a set of traffic lights.

these threads just go nowhere.

stock rex will beat a stock r33 gtst in 0-100, and 1/4 mile.

in the auto, he will be able to stall the thing up to about 2600rpm if I remember correctly. and seeing as it is the my03 model which has the highest torque figure at the lowest rpm's in all the rexes to date, he will have no issues of broken gearboxes and will eat your skyline over and over.

a manual will be even quicker if he is willing to take the risk of high rpm launch.

some will, some wont.

the whole broken gearbox is overstated.

hell you can break an R33 gtst gearbox if you really wanted to and they are supposedly good for 400rwkw...

good clutch choice will save it.

just because triple plate is the go for the japs doesn't mean you need to get it cause it comes with a sticker.

any car can be made to be quicker. straight line or thru turns.

I'll give you a quick example.

about 3 weeks ago my friend bought his RS liberty (93 model) turbo back.

he had sold it in 1996 or something.

he bought it back and the last owner has done some very good work.

it looks like a stock liberty RS apart from the 17's and the STI brakes that you can see.

still has top mounted water to air intercooler.

the previous owner has done a best time of 1:06 at wakefield.

and has a consistant average of 1:08.

the car is worth about $14K to the right buyer.

my mate picked it up for under $10K

the car has still got it's stock RS liberty gearbox but now using STI ratio's and rear diff.

RS liberty's aparently have the weakest of all the subaru turbo gearboxes.

you go explain the 280,000kms in a car that has spent most weekends at race tracks on the stock gearbox.

all off topic here but I guess you get my point of what is possible in terms of bang for buck.

all those saying r33 gtst will beat a stock wrx.... please!! yes this is a skyline forum and we all love skylines but some of you need to get your eyes out of the sexy rear lights and look around and realise there is a world out there that is beyond the skyline.

and to finish off (gets out wooden spoon and big pot)..... why buy a r33 gtst when you can get an R32 gtst which is the better car and faster than the r33 down the quarter.

[jazza08]

So your allowed to state ur opinion and im not?

Im stating from what ive seen, WRXs are pretty shit on the run in standard form!

And no an r32 wont be quicker down the 1/4 as 3/4s of them have more kms and a more tired engine.. even though i prefer a 32 the rb20 is never goin to make as much power as the rb25 will!

[Mik]

So your allowed to state ur opinion and im not?

Im stating from what ive seen, WRXs are pretty shit on the run in standard form!

And no an r32 wont be quicker down the 1/4 as 3/4s of them have more kms and a more tired engine.. even though i prefer a 32 the rb20 is never goin to make as much power as the rb25 will!

Why would more kms make an engine make less power?

[jazza08]

More wear on parts.. so they dont function as well as well as cylinder compression generally escapes more and more with more kms which also results in less power.

Thinkin bout it once anything gets used it generally wears out n becomes less efficent!

[TTT]

jazza - I'm not talking about your opinions.

of course state your opinions.

but you don't know facts.. and your last post proves it.

1.) R32 gtst "IS" quicker down the 1/4 than a R33 GTST.

yes it makes less power but it is lighter and it is quicker.

2.) you say

WRXs are pretty shit on the run in standard form!

I say, what for of racing starts on the run?

3.) in a previous post you didn't even know that the WRX's ran higher boost of 1 bar'ish..

4.) in a nother previous post you stated that the rb20 turbo was the strongest of all the skyline turbo's and therefore could be boosted more.

we all know that a skyline will get from say 140 - 180 quicker than a wrx cause at those speeds, the rex (as previously stated by a wrx owner) becomes a huge wind resistance.

where as the skyline's gearing and smoother body line doesn't have this problem and can pull away.

but legit racing.

circuit, 1/4 mile.

an R33 has no chance..

[Mik]

More wear on parts.. so they dont function as well as well as cylinder compression generally escapes more and more with more kms which also results in less power.

Thinkin bout it once anything gets used it generally wears out n becomes less efficent!

As long as the engine is still reasonable healthy, there is no reason for it to drop power as it wears. About the only thing I can think of is cam wear giving you less valve lift, but you'd be would be pushing it to loose 5 thou over 300 000kms. The difference would e nothing.

Compression shouldn't really drop with wear either. Dry compression might, but when it's running, the oil will take it up.

[sky_m6m9]

im with nitemare5, plus the wrx is more light that the 33, therefore it would own the gtst stock vs stock no prob. WRX: lightweight, AWD, 33:heavy, RWD. Therefore on the drag strip 1/4 mile, the WRX would win

[sky_m6m9]

More wear on parts.. so they dont function as well as well as cylinder compression generally escapes more and more with more kms which also results in less power.

Thinkin bout it once anything gets used it generally wears out n becomes less efficent!

Lol i think this guy is in the wrong thread. Hes talking about maintenance and not the result about 1/4 between WRX and 33 LOL :bonk:

[d-d]

If you refer to the post above his by 'Mik' you would have seen that he was referring to that... Think before you type. :hellpisd:

[TTT]

im with nitemare5, plus the wrx is more light that the 33, therefore it would own the gtst stock vs stock no prob. WRX: lightweight, AWD, 33:heavy, RWD. Therefore on the drag strip 1/4 mile, the WRX would win

you're wrong, then you're right.

wrong because the 2003 wrx is the same weight as an R33 gtst.. 1350kg as posted before.

but you're right. because the wrx would still beat it in a straight line or circuit when both stock.

sure it's unfair to compare a 96 model r33 with stock 9 year old suspension to a 03 wrx with 2 year old suspension but that is what was asked in this thread.

[sky_m6m9]

If you refer to the post above his by 'Mik' you would have seen that he was referring to that... Think before you type.  :hellpisd:

Dude dnt you think u wouldve seen that? Mik was replying to jazza not the other way around, jazza brought the topic not Mik read up mayb your the one that wasnt reading. Read GTST's post.

[sky_m6m9]

you're wrong, then you're right.

wrong because the 2003 wrx is the same weight as an R33 gtst..  1350kg as posted before.

but you're right. because the wrx would still beat it in a straight line or circuit when both stock.

sure it's unfair to compare a 96 model r33 with stock 9 year old suspension to a 03 wrx with 2 year old suspension but that is what was asked in this thread.

Is it? i asked friend's around, my friend has a rxy and i got a 33 '94 his car is way lighter, coz 33 has a bigger body. I dont think that they would be the same weight.

[GTRgeoff]

I think it's hilarious that none of the other team Wang guys have posted, and I just can't hold off anymore.

We race with the WRX club Vic. Guess what?? Both cars are pretty close around a circuit, but the most important mod is the quality of the DRIVER!!

At the recent Motorkhana the top of the field was WRX STi RA, GTR, GTR, 350Z, WRX STi, GTR. The rwd's didn't do great there but were mostly too Busy smokin' them up and having fun. A case in point is the high placing of the 350, and that was me in 6th, again on standard rubber while the guns were on their semi's.

At the track the STi's can be anywhere from front of field with the GTR's, or back with me in my track GTSt, so at PI anywhere from 1:50'S back to 2:00 (my time on street rubber) or 2:10 for the hacks and slower GTSt's but good steerers in a non STi can be around the 1:55 to 2:10. I'm yet to track the GTR, maybe next Winton round as the track car is off the road.

For each individual driver there is one measure to live by. How well YOU drive. Don't talk it up, just go out and have a go, then next time try to improve against yourself. Eventually you will be in a position to know when you are extracting the most from your car, and then you can compare times.

But keep it off the streets. That's just for wankers who are too afraid to go to the strip or circuit.