Upgrading Afm

[Dale FZ1]

Prologue: I have done the searches at some length.

I'm going to upgrade the AFM on my s1 R33, just looking for comments on the practicality and/or technical advantages to running with either Z32 or Q45.

Power target is @ 220 rwkW when funds for turbo + injector upgrade are available. Current upgrades are full exhaust + split dump, FMIC, PFC. With stock turbo, stock boost I'm maxing the AFM at around 6000rpm, so see the benefit in spending there to give better tuning results.

Search tells me that the Z32 with VL connector spliced in (thanks Cubes!!) is an easy, tidy fit.

The Q45 install (from The Mafia's schmick looking upgrades) looks like a much more mod-intensive undertaking.

What I'd like to know is if there is any technical (tuning) advantage with the Q45, and what is the connector for that unit like?

Also, will the Z32 slip straight in to the turbo inlet trunking + bolt up to the airbox?

Are there any negatives to either upgrade that I should be aware of?

cheers

[4door_Sleeper]

I have more than 220rwkw and havnt changed the AFM yet (but I am considering it for the next lot of mods)

If you only want 220rwkw then you wont need to change the injectors either (they are expensive) if you run a rising rate regulator. If you think in the future you will try for more than 250rwkw then you should consider getting the AFM and injectors because you will need them.

[elbee111]

I am interested in the question posed by Dale FZ1.

Surely someone has answers to these simple questions.

El Bee

(Watching closely)

[Freeman]

I agree with 4door sleeper. I was reading an old HPI magazine recently and they did a review on the benefits of upgrading AFMs to Z32 or Q45s. it said until well above 250rwkw on sr20, rb25 and 26's the stock AFM doesnt cause a noticable restriction.

[ECR033]

Stock AFM's max out around 200-220rwkw on rb20/25's...mine already shows around 5.0v on a 195rwkw R33 which is pretty much on the limit.

Z32 AFM's are a direct swap for the stock AFM, so no modifications are needed to fit (as long as you have the correct plug). Q45 AFM's are larger than Z32's and are not a direct fit.

I'd definately replace the stock item and get the car retuned if it's already maxing out...it's better to spend the $400 (or approx $250 for second hand item) now, rather than lean your engine out because your std AFM can't detect the additional airflow.

As for injectors, again 220rwkw is probably on the limit for the stock items. Personally, I'd replace the stock items with some 555cc injectors and new fuel pump (either Walbro or Bosch 040) as part of your upgrade just to be safe. If that's not an option, then definately fit the FPR and you should be ok for 220rwkw (but not much more).

Hope that helps.

[r33_racer]

ECR033 basically covered it, No mods required for the z32 it will fit into your intake piping. Only thing you need to mod is the wiring as shown in cubes guide. But you will need to change it over in the PFC for the car to run. Matter of selecting the z32 afm with your commander.

Just another note, you also have the option of purchasing a brand new bosch z32 afm for about 260-280 bux from bosch or a distributor instead of going for a 10+ year old second handy or a $400 brand new tomei one from nengun or the likes. Cubes and myself both have one of the bosch type and they work perfectly fine.

Also, the q45 is larger in diameter and it has an even higher resolution in comparison to the z32, thus allowing the car to read even more airflow.

Hope that makes it a little easier.

Edited October 11, 2005 by r33_racer

[Tangles]

The advice I have received from Sydneykid suggests that whilst putting in a fuel pressure regulator (Im going Nismo, non-rising rate) you should also beef up the fuel lines with high pressure lines.

Ive got a Z32AFM, as my stock afm on the Stagea is reading 4.95v, at only 141 4wheel kws. Injectors are at 76%, so upping the fuel pressure, lines and pump in lieu of the larger injectors.....

[muz-fly]

ok r33 are single 80mm AFM's, 300zx are single 80mm AFM's the wirin yes is different but the time in which the meter in a 300zx allows full air to flow is broader therefore better ull get better performance from a 300zx one (Z32)

[Dale FZ1]

ECR033 basically covered it, No mods required for the z32 it will fit into your intake piping.  Only thing you need to mod is the wiring as shown in cubes guide.  But you will need to change it over in the PFC for the car to run.  Matter of selecting the z32 afm with your commander.

Just another note, you also have the option of purchasing a brand new bosch z32 afm for about 260-280 bux from bosch or a distributor instead of going for a 10+ year old second handy or a $400 brand new tomei one from nengun or the likes.  Cubes and myself both have one of the bosch type and they work perfectly fine.

Also, the q45 is larger in diameter and it has an even higher resolution in comparison to the z32, thus allowing the car to read even more airflow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for the comments; yes it is the tuning resolution I'm looking for so the Z32 type will do nicely. It seemed that Q45 was so much physically larger it wouldn't be worthwhile given my particular aims and budget.

What Bosch part number do I ask for?

cheers

[Dale FZ1]

Z32 AFM's are a direct swap for the stock AFM, so no modifications are needed to fit (as long as you have the correct plug). I'd definately replace the stock item and get the car retuned if it's already maxing out...

As for injectors, again 220rwkw is probably on the limit for the stock items.  Personally, I'd replace the stock items with some 555cc injectors and new fuel pump (either Walbro or Bosch 040) as part of your upgrade just to be safe. If that's not an option, then definately fit the FPR and you should be ok for 220rwkw (but not much more).

Hope that helps.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, it was just the info I needed.

Fuel system is part of the upgrade program, with a 040 pump going in already. FPR I consider a bandaid fix so I'm prepared to limit max power output if needed until suitable injectors can be sourced. Even 200rwkW will make for an entertaining drive.

cheers

[Sydneykid]

Just to fill in the missing info, the Q45 AFM is 90 mm, so they are 10 mm larger than the 80 mm RB20/25/Z32 AFM's. That's 26% more flow using the old Pi from high school. For completeness, RB26 AFM's are 65 mm, but there are 2 of them.

We are using the Z32 AFM for 265 rwkw on the R34GTT, but I tuned it OK at 245 rwkw with the standard RB25 AFM. The Power FC mapping has both load (via the AFM) and RPM axis. So when the AFM reads 5.1 volts, I can still tune it via the rpm axis. It doesn't go lean or rich or do anything stupid, it's just not quite as accurate as when the AFM has some voltage change left.

Plus you tend to be a bit conservative and tune it a little rich/retarded when you have no voltage change to rely on. As a result maybe you lose a few bhp, but that's about it.

Maxing out the AFM (at 5.1 volts) is not THE big deal it is made out to be, as long as the tuner knows what he is doing.

cheers

PS, when I say "I tuned it" I really me "we tuned it", because I am not the world's greatest tuner.

Edited October 12, 2005 by Sydneykid

[rs73]

r33_racer, that's a great price on Bosch Z32 AFM... where can we get some and what part no? for that price I'm sure anyone would choose that over a 10-yr old Z32 AFM... Was also advised by my tuner to try buying brand new injectors & AFM, anything else 2nd hand will do.

[traphead]

Yep i'd like to know where to get those bosch afms from too!

Seems like a much better idea than going second hand.

[djr81]

Just another note, you also have the option of purchasing a brand new bosch z32 afm for about 260-280 bux from bosch or a distributor instead of going for a 10+ year old second handy or a $400 brand new tomei one from nengun or the likes.  Cubes and myself both have one of the bosch type and they work perfectly fine.

Hope that makes it a little easier.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you got a part number for the Bosch Z32 equivalent?

Also, if you want to go for a pod filter Apexi supply kits to suit eg they can supply a kit for an R32 GT-R with Z32 AFM's which include the plugs for the AFM's - just a thought.

[r33_racer]

hopefully this might help...its all i could get..

I got mine from petroject..which are now called automotive solutions i think.

Cheers.

[paulr33]

how much was it r33 racer

[r33_racer]

umm we paid about 260 something, but the guy we deal with is a friend, so we got it abit cheaper then normal...however cubes got his delivered for $280 i think (that right cubes). But for a brand new afm, i think anywhere upto 300 bux is reasonable, considering people ask that or more for 10+ year old second hand ones.

You would have to check with your local bosch distributor and see what they say.

[r33_racer]

Ok under that sticker i posted up from the bosch box, is the actual part number which i discovered when peeled back, thanks to DaleFZ1 for pointing out it wasnt in the photo. So for everyone that doesnt know, the bosch part number is infact

" F00E000202 "

My apologies about the stuff up.

That should actually help people now. haha.

Cheers.