Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 81
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

and how is that any different to a seat belt thats locked up (as they do)?

On review, this topic seems to be quite contentious. As far as I know, there are no scientific studies one way or the other concerning the safety of harnesses with or without roll cages, but the rationale for fitting the harness only when coupled with a roll cage is along the lines of my previous post. This is not only my opinion but seems to be a concern raised by several others...

"The rationale is that in a rollover, the racing harness will not let you get your head out of the way by bending over to the inboard of the vehicle as you could with a stock street seatbelt."

http://www.motoringfile.com/2004/09/14/sch...em_for_the_mini

"Harnesses have their own drawbacks. First are roll-over concerns. You should NEVER, EVER use any 4, 5, or 6-point harness in your vehicle without a roll bar. In the event of a rollover a multi-point harness will hold your body upright as the roof collapses on your head. At a minimum you should use a good 4-point roll-cage to help prevent this from happening. The stock 3-point harness, however, does not suffer from this problem. During a rollover accident it will allow your body to move downards with the roof in most cases, helping to prevent crippling neck and spinal injuries."

http://www.corral.net/Tech/Interior/CG-Lock/Page_02

Cheers,

Neil

it's one quick turn of the release buckle and you're free to move. a fixed back bucket seat also limits movement but at the end of the day if you're in a serious accident at speed where the car rolls, if you dont have a cage you will more than likely be injured in some way regardless of the type of safety harness fitted.

hmmmm i have half a 4 point harness... is it possible to buy the bit that buckles into the back and connects to the mounting point of the car?

ie. the car came with a 4 point but nothing to connect it to the car with lol

also snowy just on regs. wat tyres are allowed for the track days... am i allowed to use my cheater tyres or do i have 2 use semi's instead?

Full Slicks are allowed - but you need an FIA approved roll cage if you are going to run slicks.

Because, when you are firmly secured in your harness, your shoulders are fixed and your head, pivoting on your neck becomes the highest part of the interior of the car unless there is a roll-cage installed.

Hey Neil,

Last year on the "Day of Madness" at Sandown there was a white STi that went into the kitty litter at Turn 1 and rolled. The car was a mess. The driver however was pretty much OK other than being shaken up and a couple of scratches.

He was wearing a harness. If you have a look at the damage to the car I have no doubt he would have been much more seriously hurt had he been wearing just a seat belt due to the extra movement in his body during the rolls.

Andrew reads these forums now (because he was smart enough to purchase a GT-R to replace the STi) so perhaps he can best comment on these thoughts but I have no problems with the requirement.

I'll also put in that I have been going to track days for 2 years now. During that time I know of the following accidents at the track in Skylines or with other club members.

Adz - Sandown

Emre - Sandown

Scotsman - Morwell

Al - Calder

Gareth - Sandown

Roy - Eastern Creek

Mark - Calder

Joe - Phillip Island (EVO 8)

And thats just in our club. But it's far from the end of the list of accidents I've seen. But I think all of the guys listed above would agree with the need for a harness in high powered cars.

Full Slicks are allowed - but you need an FIA approved roll cage if you are going to run slicks.

yeah ive found that one out already. just gotta find sum time to book it into meridian

Went out and bought an FIA approved 4 point Willans on saturday... feck, guess those tyres are going to have to wait...

ahhhh well, as they say, in motorsport if you want to make a small fortune, start with a large one!

During that time I know of the following accidents at the track in Skylines or with other club members.

Roy - Eastern Creek

.... But I think all of the guys listed above would agree with the need for a harness in high powered cars.

I agree :D

Hey Snowie...so the rules have changed a little since last year and we've added the fuel pump to the modded list? I don't disagree as last years rules allowed quite a bit of mods before you stepped up to mod class.

Just to clarify, this seems to be a Supp Regs thing, so whilst CAMS allow you to enter a Club Sprint with a non - FIA approved harness, or an expired harness provided it is installed correctly and in good condition...

Roy,

You will NOT be allowed to run any non-CAMS/FIA approved or expired harness in any CAMS speed event if the scrutineer follow the CAMS rules. You would most probably be asked to removed them and use you OEM seat belt if equiped, most OEM 3 points seat belt is ok for CAMS non-race speed event.

You cannot compare the effectiveness of the standard OEM seatbelt to a 4/5/6 points harness, when you are in a rollover.

This car was 3 meters in the air rollover a few times the car had no rollcage but the driver had 4 points harness. He survived and was very glad to have had the harness.

Vin1.jpg

Amazing photo - if the driver got out of that with no roll-cage and only a harness you've convinced me!!! (Talk about "A picture says a thousand words").

A couple of Q's to Andrew..

Do you have a roll cage in you car?

If not, what sort of harness will you be fitting, who will fit it for you, and is such a thing street-legal?

I've seen some ingenious roll over protection fitted to cars (not a full cage) which offer some protection and preserve rear seating - do you know of any GTR's fitted out like that, still allowing the rear seat to left in place?

Cheers,

Neil

Last year on the "Day of Madness" at Sandown there was a white STi that went into the kitty litter at Turn 1 and rolled. The car was a mess. The driver however was pretty much OK other than being shaken up and a couple of scratches.

He was wearing a harness. If you have a look at the damage to the car I have no doubt he would have been much more seriously hurt had he been wearing just a seat belt due to the extra movement in his body during the rolls.

I had forgotten how bad that car looked after the roll. Heres a few pics of it. As Andrew said the driver walked away unscathed.

I think in a roll like that you would definitely want a harness.

post-8768-1137412040.jpg

post-8768-1137412119.jpg

post-8768-1137412149.jpg

post-8768-1137412184.jpg

post-8768-1137412217.jpg

Roy,

You will NOT be allowed to run any non-CAMS/FIA approved or expired harness in any CAMS speed event if the scrutineer follow the CAMS rules. Vin1.jpg

Actually you are right...its the skidpan days that arent classified as speed events that you can get away with running non CAMS approved harnesses. But im pretty sure they do not have to be FIA approved, as there are some other recognised standards, though why buck tradition when the safe thing is to just get an FIA approved harness.

As for legality on the street, you dont need too manu guesses :P . FIA approved harness and installed in accordance to CAMS guidelines doesnt make it ADR approved, so be sure to keep your std belt for day to day driving

Hey Neil,

Last year on the "Day of Madness" at Sandown there was a white STi that went into the kitty litter at Turn 1 and rolled. The car was a mess. The driver however was pretty much OK other than being shaken up and a couple of scratches.

He was wearing a harness. If you have a look at the damage to the car I have no doubt he would have been much more seriously hurt had he been wearing just a seat belt due to the extra movement in his body during the rolls.

Andrew reads these forums now (because he was smart enough to purchase a GT-R to replace the STi) so perhaps he can best comment on these thoughts but I have no problems with the requirement.

Thanks for the reminder Snowy, yes, I'm thankful that I had a harness that day.

And no, the picture of the silver rex is not fake, I'm the one on the flag point telling the CoC to red flag the session!! :P

I have always worn a harness on the track from day one and am glad I did.

The GT-R has one and will have a cage as well. I can only speak from personal experience, if you're going hard - use a harness at the very least.

See you at Calder boys.

Regards

Andrew B)

Edited by BBGTR

Well if you have been reading this thread and have somehow not been scared off coming to the track then you are definitely worthy of joining Team Wang!

Anyways....

Neil,

I used all of last season a 4 point harness from Meridian made by ERG. Its fantastic. Basically it is an exact copy of the Sparco 4 point harness - just cheaper. I installed it myself - its dead easy. The 2 rear shoulder points go into the rear seat belt mounting points, and the waist belts bolt into you normal seat belt mounting points (the kit comes with a replacement bolt so that you can still reinstall the normal seat belts as well as using the harness). As mentioned by Ash the harness don't meet ADR complience so you can wear your harness on the street BUT you still have to put on the normal seat belt as well.

Meridian are also the guys to speak to if you want a cage. I think its ALSGTR on here who has a nice R32 GT-R that has a beautiful cage made by Meridian.

They can do the full FIA approved cages but if you are after a simple 4 point rollover hoop with tags to the B pillars they quote to do that for only $1050 fitted.

:D <- I'm so glad this is back!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Well, apparently they do fit, however this wont be a problem if not because the car will be stationary while i do the suspension work. I was just going to use the 16's to roll the old girl around if I needed to. I just need to get the E90 back on the road first. Yes! I'm a believer! 🙌 So, I contacted them because the site kinda sucks and I was really confused about what I'd need. They put together a package for me and because I was spraying all the seat surfaces and not doing spot fixes I decided not to send them a headrest to colour match, I just used their colour on file (and it was spot on).  I got some heavy duty cleaner, 1L of colour, a small bottle of dye hardener and a small bottle of the dye top coat. I also got a spray gun as I needed a larger nozzle than the gun I had and it was only $40 extra. From memory the total was ~$450 ish. Its not cheap but the result is awesome. They did add repair bits and pieces to the quote originally and the cost came down significantly when I said I didn't need any repair products. I did it over a weekend. The only issues I had were my own; I forgot to mix the hardener into the dye two coats but I had enough dye for 2 more coats with the hardener. I also just used up all the dye because why not and i rushed the last coat which gave me some runs. Thankfully the runs are under the headrests. The gun pattern wasn't great, very round and would have been better if it was a line. It made it a little tricky to get consistent coverage and I think having done the extra coats probably helped conceal any coverage issues. I contacted them again a few months later so I could get our X5 done (who the f**k thought white leather was a good idea for a family car?!) and they said they had some training to do in Sydney and I could get a reduced rate on the leather fix in the X5 if I let them demo their product on our car. So I agreed. When I took Bec in the E39 to pick it up, I showed them the job I'd done in my car and they were all (students included) really impressed. Note that they said the runs I created could be fixed easily at the time with a brush or an air compressor gun. So, now with the two cars done I can absolutely recommend Colourlock.  I'll take pics of both interiors and create a new thread.
    • Power is fed to the ECU when the ignition switch is switched to IGN, at terminal 58. That same wire also connects to the ECCS relay to provide both the coil power and the contact side. When the ECU sees power at 58 it switches 16 to earth, which pulls the ECCS relay on, which feeds main power into the ECU and also to a bunch of other things. None of this is directly involved in the fuel pump - it just has to happen first. The ECU will pull terminal 18 to earth when it wants the fuel pump to run. This allows the fuel pump relay to pull in, which switches power on into the rest of the fuel pump control equipment. The fuel pump control regulator is controlled from terminal 104 on the ECU and is switched high or low depending on whether the ECU thinks the pump needs to run high or low. (I don't know which way around that is, and it really doesn't matter right now). The fuel pump control reg is really just a resistor that controls how the power through the pump goes to earth. Either straight to earth, or via the resistor. This part doesn't matter much to us today. The power to the fuel pump relay comes from one of the switched wires from the IGN switch and fusebox that is not shown off to the left of this page. That power runs the fuel pump relay coil and a number of other engine peripherals. Those peripherals don't really matter. All that matters is that there should be power available at the relay when the key is in the right position. At least - I think it's switched. If it's not switched, then power will be there all the time. Either way, if you don't have power there when you need it (ie, key on) then it won't work. The input-output switching side of the relay gains its power from a line similar (but not the same as) the one that feeds the ECU. SO I presume that is switched. Again, if there is not power there when you need it, then you have to look upstream. And... the upshot of all that? There is no "ground" at the fuel pump relay. Where you say: and say that pin 1 Black/Pink is ground, that is not true. The ECU trigger is AF73, is black/pink, and is the "ground". When the ECU says it is. The Blue/White wire is the "constant" 12V to power the relay's coil. And when I say "constant", I mean it may well only be on when the key is on. As I said above. So, when the ECU says not to be running the pump (which is any time after about 3s of switching on, with no crank signal or engine speed yet), then you should see 12V at both 1 and 2. Because the 12V will be all the way up to the ECU terminal 18, waiting to be switched to ground. When the ECU switches the fuel pump on, then AF73 should go to ~0V, having been switched to ground and the voltage drop now occurring over the relay coil. 3 & 5 are easy. 5 is the other "constant" 12V, that may or may not be constant but will very much want to be there when the key is on. Same as above. 3 goes to the pump. There should never be 12V visible at 3 unless the relay is pulled in. As to where the immobiliser might have been spliced into all this.... It will either have to be on wire AF70 or AF71, whichever is most accessible near the alarm. Given that all those wires run from the engine bay fusebox or the ECU, via the driver's area to the rear of the car, it could really be either. AF70 will be the same colour from the appropriate fuse all the way to the pump. If it has been cut and is dangling, you should be able to see that  in that area somewhere. Same with AF71.   You really should be able to force the pump to run. Just jump 12V onto AF72 and it should go. That will prove that the pump itself is willing to go along with you when you sort out the upstream. You really should be able to force the fuel pump relay on. Just short AF73 to earth when the key is on. If the pump runs, then the relay is fine, and all the power up to both inputs on the relay is fine. If it doesn't run (and given that you checked the relay itself actually works) then one or both of AF70 and AF71 are not bringing power to the game.
    • @PranK can you elaborate further on the Colorlock Dye? The website has a lot of options. I'm sure you've done all the research. I have old genuine leather seats that I have bought various refurbing creams and such, but never a dye. Any info on how long it lasts? Does it wash out? Is it a hassle? What product do I actually need? Am I just buying this kit and following the steps the page advises or something else? https://www.colourlockaustralia.com.au/colourlock-leather-repair-kit-dye.html
    • These going to fit over the big brakes? I'd be reeeeeeeeaaaall hesitant to believe so.
    • The leather work properly stunned me. Again, I am thankful that the leather was in such good condition. I'm not sure what the indent is at the top of the passenger seat. Like somebody was sitting in it with a golf ball between their shoulders. The wheels are more grey than silver now and missing a lot of gloss.  Here's one with nice silver wheels.
×
×
  • Create New...