Best Course Of Action

[Alkemist]

Well it seems the Crank Angle Sensor has seized up and literally shattered the Cam Shaft Drive in my Rb20det Cefiro, so I left with a dillemma.

Is it worth sourcing out a used/new CAS and cam shaft drive and while im at it get the Timing belt changed over, or should I seriously consider dropping in a 25det.

As far as I know, after fixing this, most of the major problems and servicing will be out of the way for the 100,000k rb20det, and if putting the 25det in is the more viable option, there is no way of telling if I will run into just as many problems with the 25.

What price should I be looking for, with used CAS, cam shaft drive, timing belt and labour.

Atm I am looking for the cheapest long-term fix.

[SECURITY]

cheapest long term? rb30/25.

if you use the r32 rb25de head you can use all of your existing gear (injectors, wiring etc).

would probably cost you around $2,000 doing it on the cheap.

[mad082]

as security said go the 30/25. otherwise go a 25. it will be more expensive but will be a lot more responsive than a built 20. the 20's are laggier than the 25 in stock form so if you were to go a bigger turbo on a 20 you would make more power than a 25 but it would be MUCH laggier.

[TTT]

the 30/25 is NEVER as cheap as people make out.

NEVER.

if you want a cheap option, 30/25 is not for you.

CHEAPEST option is fix what you got or get another rb20 block from forums or wreckers and put all your shit on it.

[Alkemist]

Atm I am not looking for much power, I was chasing about 200kw with the 20, so I am not too fussed about it.

Going 25/30, I'm guessing would cost about 5k, with 25 gearbox etc and labour. What would be required to make it fit in the Cefiro, will it just bolt straight up?

[ctjet]

pick up a complete RB25 (in a front cut) and bolt it together... RB20 FTL

[Phantom32]

rb25 all the way

more torque, more response...and 200rwkw from a 25 (easy to get) will make the car run v.well...great value for money

[TTT]

an rb25 turbo on an rb20 with about 14psi and a re-map of stock ecu will put you in the region of 180-190rwkw.

some have got higher.

and RB25 front cut or just engine even is going to be over $2K to begin with.

Rb25/30 is useless unless you have a larger turbo to go with it.

an RB25 turbo will almost be on boost at just over idle.

so a hiflow or second hard GT turbo of some sort adds another $1K at least.

everyone says (and I used to aswell till I searched for cost of parts and added it up), just get a $100 bottom end, bolt a rb25de head from an R32 to it, bolt your bits and you're done.

but then you realise, oh yeh...

gasket kit - $250

new timing belt - $100

new pulley/idler - $100

new water pump (might as well since the belt is off) - $250

new turbo - $1000

modify intercooler piping for the extra 34mm hight in block - $100

modify the exhaust for the extra height - $100

unless you can do ALL these yourself and have all the right tools to torque the head down correctly, you're looking at about $1000 or more for labour.

then you gotta use your Rb20 AFM and ECU.

AFM will max out quick smart.

ECu will need to be re-mapped or replaced with PFC or similar.

might aswell get the Z32 AFM.

there goes another $1800 (rb20 PFC is rare and still around $1500)

then tuning will be about $500 minimum

then you have your car running.

and damn it goes alright..

then, bang.. rattle rattle, crunch, crunch..

oh there goes the glass RB20 gearbox.

let's pull together $1500 for an Rb25 box.

hmm.. clutch could do with a refresh..

not to mention the flywheel.

$400 RB20

$300 rb25 turbo

$500 to get it in the car with new belts etc.

problem solved.

[mad082]

problem solved.

problem wouldn't be solved. it would still be a rb20

[TTT]

keep it down magna boy

[ctjet]

burn

[Roy]

pick up a complete RB25 (in a front cut) and bolt it together... RB20 FTL

rb25 all the way

more torque, more response...and 200rwkw from a 25 (easy to get) will make the car run v.well...great value for money

Saddists

Have you bent valves or anything screwy? Cant see how you would have. Sounds to me like you have just damaged the CAS and exhaust cam?

Do a compression test on the engine...if all is well then you can have your car back on the road for less then $800 inc a full service!!!!!

You can grab an RB20 cam for some spare change. Grab a used CAS and get your mechanic to install for you. While the timing belt is off, throw new idler/tensioner and water pump at it, a new Nissan timing belt and you are away.

Listen to GTST, all this talk of "long term" , "cheaper" RB25 RB30 etc etc is in my opinion wrong or very misleading.

RB20s can go punch for punch with the other RBs. Do the sums yourself with your mechanic...but dont listen to anyone who tells you that an R32 with a std RB25 is automatically better then an R32 with an RB20. I woudl very seriously challenge that statement as a general premise

dont go and spend 3-5k on an RB25 install only to be demoralised by how much it just cost, or the broken gearbox that may ensue, or the little bit of drama with modding the wiring loom etc and end up selling it. if you have plenty of cash to throw at it...wooohooo, go crazy. But from what i am reading there is no need to do anything other then fix it up and get back and enjoy the car on the road...not lookign at it in the garage and a growing bill

[Alkemist]

Thanks Roy, exactly the reply I was looking for, however I don't think it would be as cheap as 800$. As far as I know, without pulling the engine apart yet, the CAS has had it, and the passenger side CAM shaft drive has shattered inside the engine. Would the fragments have filtered down through the engine? Or would they be contained just in the CAM shaft.

The only reason I bring up a 25 transplant would be if the engine required a total rebuild to get back on the road, of which I would seriously consider spending a little more to get the 25t instead.

Power is the last thing on my mind atm, I just want a reliable fix that will keep the car on the road. Also it is a stock RB20DET Cefiro, so the engine/loom etc is slightly different to the R32, if that makes any difference.

[Roy]

Ring around wreckers and see how much for an RB20DET CAS. I got mine for $130 from memory.

Now the drive on teh cam is literally a little tab that basically mates to the CAS. If it has seized then it for sure will shag the CAS, and perhaps snap the tip off in the end of the cam. It is captive in the end of the cam and wont have been floating around in the head. It will most likely have fallen out when the CAS was removed.

So i would be amazed if you need to pull the engine down and rebuild anything. Grab a timing belt for $90, some idler/tensioner bearings. (Do a search you can get the same thing from bearing companies a lot cheaper then from Nissan), a water pump which is something like $150 from Nissan. So you are up to around $500 in parts.

Float through the classified of this forum, or post in the Wanted to Buy section, all you need is an RB20DET exhaust cam. You will be able to grab one for $50 since you can grab complete head for $150.

So off to the mechanics, where they will remove the radiator to get to the front of the engine. Rip the timing belt off, remove the cam gear and cam cover. Remove the damaged cam, replace with your purchased exhaust cam...put the rocker cover back on, water pump, tensioner/idlers etc and new belt.

You would be up for a good part of a days labour to do it all by the time the inlet peipes etc are all back together. Run this all past your mechanic, but it should only be marginally more expensive then replacement of the timing belt/water pump etc etc as the front of the engine is apart anyway so the exhaust cam is easily changed. Thats a major service so can be seen as a bit of pre-emptive servicing anyway.

So, check with your mechanic, but a snapped CAS drive on the end of the cam should not damage any of the motor. Just means it wont run as the CAS wont be talking to the ECU

More of a concern is the seized CAS! Are you running the timing belt cover. Are you sure the CAS was installed correctly? never heard of one seizing before. Have seen them damaged by being instaled without the timing belt cover and the bushes not used to space the CAS off the cam wheel. But stranger things have happened to RB20s

[TTT]

hmm 2 posts by roy about rb20 over rb25 and no sign of "THAT" video..

[Roy]

LOL...too many R32s start getting RB25 conversions only for the car to be sold as soon as its doe because the car owes the owner too much money and the gearbox is about to die, etc etc etc

R32s with a basic RB20 can still be damn quick. 100kg lighter and sharper gearing means they can surprise a lot of ppl...

[TTT]

I agree... but still..

can't see "THAT" video attached anywhere in this thread.

[Roy]

LOL, what this,,,

And begin rant...dont forget the Rb20 won the SATCC, it placed 2 cars in the top 4 at Bathurst in 1989. It won the JTCC...what has an RB25 ever done

[BHDave]

I agree with roy in this case, even though i am an rb25 convert. The power you are chasing is easily attainable with good response on an rb20

Any damaged material will be on the front of the engine, rather than in the engine. The only things that could be damaged (other then the cam and cas) are items you will replace anyway as part of the 100k service, like belt, maybe some marks on the tensioners and crank sprocket. nothing major.

So, swap exhaust cam, replace cas, do the 100k service bullshit, probably a good idea to replace the exhaust cam seal just incase it was cut up (check the front main seal while you are there but i'd bet it's ok). Waterpump as you can get to it easily with the belt off.

Roy, if that was a 32 vs 32 battle you might have an arguement...

[blind_elk]

Cubic Inches count. And the RB25 has torque to burn.

I'm yet to come close to blowing up the gearbox, despite pushing 180 kW out all 4 wheels (RB20 put a whole 115 through 4 wheels).