Gtr Vs The V8 Supercars

[typevu]

GTR slower - V8 faster. End of story.

[niZmO_Man]

If I recall properly, the chicane at the end of Conrod was put up in 1986?

GTR was a Group A car, and the V8's are a completely independent formula

So you can't compare them directly

We'll have to wait 20 years when both become historics to see them together on track

[Sklyn]

ohhhh...

Surely some RICH guy can afford to buy one of each and race them...Put it on DVD and make more $$$$$

[BaysideBlue]

Don't know about 15 year old GTR but JGTC/SUPER GT GT500 class cars are superior than V8 SUPERCARs. Technically more advanced in many areas like lightweight tube-frame chassis, the freedom to change engines with other models made by the manufacturer, change the alignment of the engine, forced induction and such which ensure faster corner speed and lap times than most GT racing cars in the world, if not out right grunt.

You may find this interesting:

"In recent years however, rule changes in both GT500 and FIA GT1 (aimed at eventually allowing both classes to compete with each other in the future) have brought the cars closer to each other, although GT500 cars still have a notable advantage in terms of aerodynamics - an FIA GT1 spec Maserati MC12 entered (and later withdrawn) by Team Goh was losing at least 1 second in the corners during (2006) pre-season testing at the Suzuka Circuit"

2007 Suzuka lap time:

TAKATA DOME NSX Ryo Michigami

Takashi Kogure*

1'45.601

Not only is V8 supercars slower but the fact it's a two-horse race makes it the most boring motor racing in the world. Ok maybe second only to Nascars. Maybe.

Just my 2c

Edited October 10, 2007 by BaysideBlue

[R31Nismoid]

While there are GTR's not too far off v8 times, of course they arent going to do it for 6 hours for all the reasons covered on pages 1/2

Brakes/suspension/tyres/data logging & info/fuels/aero/track surface/car weights/communications

ALL play a big factor, and they are very much uncomparable to 1991/2.

Even the laws/rules are nothing like it was back then because its all about 'parity' and all the other bullshit that the v8 SuperTaxi's is about to keep the race interesting... even if its largely boring for the fact the cars are just a shell with the undersides so close to similar, so its only good for watching them play destruction derby from time to time.

Gimme a historics meet to watch any day with ALL the classic cars, Skylines, Cossie's, Ford/Holden, M3's etc.

Back when the 'series' as we speak of here, was actually interesting to watch

[funkymonkey]

so you reckon jesus would do better magic tricks than david copperfield on stage in the present day?

that, just like this discussion, is one that is heavily biased by your opinion, and as such there's no right answer... and those opposing your views aren't going to accept your rationale, faultless as it may seem to you.

[SECURITY]

i heard that the reason they kicked the r32's out of bathurst wasnt because they were turbo, not because they're 4wd.. it was because they kept spinning bearings.

p.s. LOL

[gtr660hp]

Don't know about 15 year old GTR but JGTC/SUPER GT GT500 class cars are superior than V8 SUPERCARs. Technically more advanced in many areas like lightweight tube-frame chassis, the freedom to change engines with other models made by the manufacturer, change the alignment of the engine, forced induction and such which ensure faster corner speed and lap times than most GT racing cars in the world, if not out right grunt.

You may find this interesting:

"In recent years however, rule changes in both GT500 and FIA GT1 (aimed at eventually allowing both classes to compete with each other in the future) have brought the cars closer to each other, although GT500 cars still have a notable advantage in terms of aerodynamics - an FIA GT1 spec Maserati MC12 entered (and later withdrawn) by Team Goh was losing at least 1 second in the corners during (2006) pre-season testing at the Suzuka Circuit"

2007 Suzuka lap time:

TAKATA DOME NSX Ryo Michigami

Takashi Kogure*

1'45.601

Not only is V8 supercars slower but the fact it's a two-horse race makes it the most boring motor racing in the world. Ok maybe second only to Nascars. Maybe.

Just my 2c

True about the GT500 cars

Like I said the ZENT Supra lapped Qld raceway in 1:02 and the top V8 guys go around in the high 1:09's....but once again not a relevant comparison as the Gt500 cars are an open silhouette class and the V8 are far more restricted....heres a good comparison...the 5L ford/chev V8 makes around 620-640 Hp and the 4.5L 3UZFE in the GT500 Supra made around 530-550 Hp

[lingeringsoul]

i heard that the reason they kicked the r32's out of bathurst wasnt because they were turbo, not because they're 4wd.. it was because they kept spinning bearings.

p.s. LOL

I was just about to add that but you beat me to it

[Wink]

Those in the know.

We know GT500 cars are faster than V8SCs - what about GT300?

[gtr660hp]

Those in the know.

We know GT500 cars are faster than V8SCs - what about GT300?

The GT300 cars are around 12-13 seconds slower than a GT500 car around Suzuka.

Example of lap times from top 5 cars in each catagory

GT500 1'52.663

GT300 2'04.590

So if a GT500 car is 7 secs quicker than a V8 Supercar around somewhere like Qld Raceway and Suzuka is 5.8km long and Qld Raceway is 3.12 km well using rough simple maths that puts the the GT300 and V8 Supercars real close on lap times

I forgota McLaren F1 does Suzuka in 1:31....kinda puts it all in perspective...tin tops are slow ha ha

Edited October 11, 2007 by gtr660hp

[scathing]

I forgota McLaren F1 does Suzuka in 1:31....kinda puts it all in perspective...tin tops are slow ha ha

So does that mean Hondas and Renaults are quicker than V8 Supercars and GT-Rs?

[gtr660hp]

So does that mean Hondas and Renaults are quicker than V8 Supercars and GT-Rs?

ha ha seeing Honda and Renault make F1 cars YES...and Technically Renault own a major share of Nissan

[Ant97GTR]

Well our driver does 1;11:5 in the v8 and he has done a best of 1:19:4 in my car so its more like 8 seconds

and 8 seconds is lights years away at qld Raceway......this would be more like 17-18 secs at Bathurst track..,

Ha ha I pay all the bills so I am well aware of the costs of all components in our race cars.... Oh and the big difference is the V8 will do that time all day and mine will only be good for 10 laps

gtr660hp....I couldn't agree more and let me point out that I am under no illusions that the current V8 'supercar' will do a faster lap for far longer than a gtr could. At the end of the day you really cannot compare them as they are chalk and cheese for reasons listed in the last 6 pages of this topic. What I find interesting is that you spend a 10th of the cost of a V8 on a gtr and it can be a few seconds slower than a v8 over one lap.

What I'd really like to see is for a gtr to be built to the current regs of the V8's - same tyres, gearbox, weight, power etc etc and then compare them.....considering that isn't going to happen it is a mute arguement but I'd bet the R would be in front on the last lap.

Bring back good racing with a mixed car series like group A used to be I say!

[mad082]

What I'd really like to see is for a gtr to be built to the current regs of the V8's - same tyres, gearbox, weight, power etc etc and then compare them.....considering that isn't going to happen it is a mute arguement but I'd bet the R would be in front on the last lap.

but you can't apply the same rules too them. they are 4wd, they are turbo, they have a smaller motor, etc. to build it up under the same rules you would have to put a 5.0L v8, rwd, have an aero package that is the same as the fords and holdens, but the body up to change it to have the same track and wheelbase as the fords and holdens (even the new VE commodore has to have the body lengthened or widend to meet the regulations). so you would end up with a v8 supercar with a gtr shell. it would be no different to a toy slot car where you just stick whatever shell you like onto the same motor, etc. so at the end of the race the car with the best driver, etc would be in front. not necessarilly the nissan.

and the main advantage the gtr has is the 4wd. but if you were to race a gtr in GTP today i think you would find the EVO's giving it a good run for it's money.

[djr81]

Hmm, I watched the group A racing.

It sucked.

The GT-R's smashed everything & the racing was profoundly dull.

If anyone thinks that Group A was in anyway viable post 1992 then they are sadly mistaken. Looking at the current grids it is almost impossible to believe that top level racing in Australia had a near death experience in the mid nineties. Channel 7 was about to dump ATCC coverage & frankly if it wasn't for channel 10 there would be no V8's, or much else for that matter. Just club level stuff.

Also for those people who erroneously believed the GT-R's were constructed to a level far above the V8's - well given the same people are still involved with the teams that is just nonsense also.

Now I love my GT-R in ways that border on the unnatural. But Group A is dead & gone & it is time people got over it.

Moot point, mute point or whatever else.

[Ant97GTR]

but you can't apply the same rules too them. they are 4wd, they are turbo, they have a smaller motor, etc. to build it up under the same rules you would have to put a 5.0L v8, rwd, have an aero package that is the same as the fords and holdens, but the body up to change it to have the same track and wheelbase as the fords and holdens (even the new VE commodore has to have the body lengthened or widend to meet the regulations). so you would end up with a v8 supercar with a gtr shell. it would be no different to a toy slot car where you just stick whatever shell you like onto the same motor, etc. so at the end of the race the car with the best driver, etc would be in front. not necessarilly the nissan.

Mad082 that is exactly what I meant by 'that isn't going to happen'. I didn't say apply the same rules as the V8's...I said make things you can the same as in power, gearbox, tyres etc. Of course then you end up with a car with a massive avantage due to the turbo and 4wd and that is exactly my arguement...given the same equipment (where possible) the gtr would be out in front due to the basic differences of the cars.

[scathing]

What I find interesting is that you spend a 10th of the cost of a V8 on a gtr and it can be a few seconds slower than a v8 over one lap.

Its not that interesting, if you think about it.

I could spend a tenth the cost of a V8 Supercar on an SS Commodore and probably get it to within a few seconds of the V8 Supercar over a single time-attack lap too. That doesn't mean that HRT etc can't build a fast car.

If I'm not building to regulations, and therefore sinking a lot of money to "work around" artificial restrictions rather than the limits of physics or current engineering, I could build a beast of a taxi too.

Everyone on here will have, by now, seen the video of the Mines Ultimate Response R34 GT-R and how the BMI drivers reckon its faster than their GT500 cars under acceleration. What's the likelihood that the Mines' car cost anywhere near as much as the GT500 vehicle?

[gtr660hp]

Hmm, I watched the group A racing.

It sucked.

The GT-R's smashed everything & the racing was profoundly dull.

If anyone thinks that Group A was in anyway viable post 1992 then they are sadly mistaken. Looking at the current grids it is almost impossible to believe that top level racing in Australia had a near death experience in the mid nineties. Channel 7 was about to dump ATCC coverage & frankly if it wasn't for channel 10 there would be no V8's, or much else for that matter. Just club level stuff.

Also for those people who erroneously believed the GT-R's were constructed to a level far above the V8's - well given the same people are still involved with the teams that is just nonsense also.

Now I love my GT-R in ways that border on the unnatural. But Group A is dead & gone & it is time people got over it.

Moot point, mute point or whatever else.

Yep finally a voice of reason and knowledge

I have worked in motrsport for longer than I care to remember and I cut my teeth in the early 90's on a Morris BMW and let me tell you the V8SC of today are light years ahead of the semi amatuer stuff that was racing in the 90's and that includes the GTRs. I have been under Skaifes/Richards Winfield car and some of the componetry on that car was average at best...and thats not a critism of the car or team...that was just where technology and engineering was at in Australia during that time.

[gun32gtr]

ohhhh...

Surely some RICH guy can afford to buy one of each and race them...Put it on DVD and make more $$$$$

you would think so....