Coilovers

[Kaido_RR]

after relooking at my tein, i made a mistake mine are not RA but Type RS

my comments still stand on how good they are, took the car to a drift practice afew weeks but and the car handle perfect

[mesmerized]

anyone know if tein hyper street coilovers with a spring rate of 4kg front + rear would be suitable/comfortable for an r33 gtst mostly used on the street?

[Luke_ENR34]

well i got mine in my car now, and to be honest there not heaps hard. grip to the road well also.

[zebra]

anyone know if tein hyper street coilovers with a spring rate of 4kg front + rear would be suitable/comfortable for an r33 gtst mostly used on the street?

I run SS with 4kg springs.....there pretty good on the street...it doesnt "crash" over big bumps like it did with the standard stuff.

But even cats eyes on the road will unsettle the car on fast sweepers and will stuggle to put the power down on rough ground.

[Brocaine]

Look, I'm not sure if I agree with all this business about spring rates being the same across all cars.

Sure, on mcpherson strut cars it's going to be reasonably similar, but on a wishbone setup, it would be nearly impossible to compare spring rates across different platforms.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone seems to be leaving out of the equation the location of the springs on the control arms. A higher spring rate mounted further in on an arm could be compared to a lower spring rate mounted further out on an arm. The spring itself might compress 1mm for every 7 kg, but with different length arms this could translate any number of ways.

Toyota Soarers, Chasers etc, as well as FD RX7's typically run a stiffer spring rate than say an S15 or S14.

SK, i'd be interested to hear your theories on this.

[salad]

^^^ Spot on, different cars usually have different motion ratios, so what the wheel centre and the spring see in motion can be different for different cars. Unless you know the motion ratios for both cars, it's useless comparing spring rates between them.

[Sydneykid]

Look, I'm not sure if I agree with all this business about spring rates being the same across all cars.

Sure, on mcpherson strut cars it's going to be reasonably similar, but on a wishbone setup, it would be nearly impossible to compare spring rates across different platforms.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone seems to be leaving out of the equation the location of the springs on the control arms. A higher spring rate mounted further in on an arm could be compared to a lower spring rate mounted further out on an arm. The spring itself might compress 1mm for every 7 kg, but with different length arms this could translate any number of ways.

Toyota Soarers, Chasers etc, as well as FD RX7's typically run a stiffer spring rate than say an S15 or S14.

SK, i'd be interested to hear your theories on this.

Movement and leverage ratios have to be taken into account when calculating the "effective" spring rate (what the tyre feels). Which is the only thing that is important in handling and ride. The actual spring rate (at the spring) is a meaningless number without knowing the movement and leverage ratios. Since R32/33/34 Skylines plus S1 and S2 Stageas all have the same movement and leverage ratios, we can effectively compare the actual spring rates. But comparing the front spring rates of an S13/14/15 with an R32/33/34 is a waste of good oxygen, since the movement and leverage ratios are different.

Cheers

Gary

[STATUS]

Look, I'm not sure if I agree with all this business about spring rates being the same across all cars.

Sure, on mcpherson strut cars it's going to be reasonably similar, but on a wishbone setup, it would be nearly impossible to compare spring rates across different platforms.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but everyone seems to be leaving out of the equation the location of the springs on the control arms. A higher spring rate mounted further in on an arm could be compared to a lower spring rate mounted further out on an arm. The spring itself might compress 1mm for every 7 kg, but with different length arms this could translate any number of ways.

Toyota Soarers, Chasers etc, as well as FD RX7's typically run a stiffer spring rate than say an S15 or S14.

SK, i'd be interested to hear your theories on this.

this was covered within the few few posts on page one.....

[Brocaine]

Fair enough. Just looked like in previous posts you were saying that Semi's hated anything over a 7kg/mm spring. Sounded a little generalised, but thanks for clearing it up.

[salad]

I'm fairly sure SK meant semis dont like anything more than 7kg/mm at the wheel (wheel rate), and as all the skylines have a motion ratio pretty close to 1 (1:1 movement between shock and wheel), the spring rate can be considered the wheel rate.

[Trust33]

I've got HKS Hiper-D Coilovers. i have heard they're 9 or 10kg front, 6 or 7kg rear.! is this true? in one way i beleive it because of how bloody hard they are on the street.

in grip sessions they skip at the track under hard braking going over riplly surfaces. they are a drift coilover i know. honestly i just had them reconditioned and b4 that the damper adjustment was seized in one of the shocks. so i never did any adjustiung at the track. it will be interesting to see how they perform with a harder damper setting especially on the rear end for drifting.

[Sydneykid]

I've got HKS Hiper-D Coilovers. i have heard they're 9 or 10kg front, 6 or 7kg rear.! is this true? in one way i beleive it because of how bloody hard they are on the street.

in grip sessions they skip at the track under hard braking going over riplly surfaces. they are a drift coilover i know. honestly i just had them reconditioned and b4 that the damper adjustment was seized in one of the shocks. so i never did any adjustiung at the track. it will be interesting to see how they perform with a harder damper setting especially on the rear end for drifting.

You would be much better off with adjustable stabiliser bars than such stiff spring rates. You can adjust bars in a few minutes while you are changing tyres. What are you going to do with too hard springs? You would have to have 4 sets and that still would not give you the adjustability you would get with bars.

Cheers

Gary

[siksII]

I've got HKS Hiper-D Coilovers. i have heard they're 9 or 10kg front, 6 or 7kg rear.! is this true? in one way i beleive it because of how bloody hard they are on the street.

These coilovers came with my car. I found them way to hard for street use, the car would skip through corners, making for a scary drive. The adjustment didnt do much. Not sure about the spring rates, sorry.

you may even find some new cracks in the windscreen.

Changed to whiteline/bilsteins, these are much better and allow for faster and more confident driving in almost any condition however still resulted in a cracked windscreen..

[Trust33]

You would be much better off with adjustable stabiliser bars than such stiff spring rates. You can adjust bars in a few minutes while you are changing tyres. What are you going to do with too hard springs? You would have to have 4 sets and that still would not give you the adjustability you would get with bars.

Cheers

Gary

Thanks for the advice Gary. Atm im on a full whiteline stabiliser bar kit with urethane bush set, camber front and rear and pineapples set to standard.

the front adj blades on the swaybar im pretty sure though i could only get set up at 2nd and 3rd hole. can the front swaybars be adjusted any further? how can i do it? the rear is at full hard.

These coilovers came with my car. I found them way to hard for street use, the car would skip through corners, making for a scary drive. The adjustment didnt do much. Not sure about the spring rates, sorry.

Changed to whiteline/bilsteins, these are much better and allow for faster and more confident driving in almost any condition however still resulted in a cracked windscreen..

cracked windscreen, damn! what were u doing to do that.

[siksII]

cracked windscreen, damn! what were u doing to do that.

Enough driving on bumpy country roads will do it even with soft springs...

If you like backroads driving, get rid of the hyper-d's they are just too firm and the damping is too crap to handle the bumps this country anyway!

[Sydneykid]

I've got HKS Hiper-D Coilovers. i have heard they're 9 or 10kg front, 6 or 7kg rear.! is this true? in one way i beleive it because of how bloody hard they are on the street.

This thread will tell you how to measure the coils so that I can work out the springs rates for you

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Sp...Are-t79157.html

in grip sessions they skip at the track under hard braking going over riplly surfaces. they are a drift coilover i know.

This is the problem, you don't have any adjustment, it sounds like the spring rates are so stiff that there is no such thing as "grip".

honestly i just had them reconditioned and b4 that the damper adjustment was seized in one of the shocks. so i never did any adjustiung at the track. it will be interesting to see how they perform with a harder damper setting especially on the rear end for drifting.

My guess is it will make diddly squat difference. All you are doing is adjusting the rebound damping, which is going to have next to zero effect on the amount of grip you have or don't have.

Thanks for the advice Gary. Atm im on a full whiteline stabiliser bar kit with urethane bush set, camber front and rear and pineapples set to standard.

the front adj blades on the swaybar im pretty sure though i could only get set up at 2nd and 3rd hole. can the front swaybars be adjusted any further? how can i do it? the rear is at full hard.

What size bars are you using? My guess is the off the shelf 24 mm front and 22 mm rear, which is too narrow an adjusment range for the track work you are doing, grip or drift. You should really be looking at 26 or 27 mm front and 24 or 26 mm rear. I don't recall what model it is, if it's an R32 then you need 4 adjustment settings on the front and 3 on the rear, standard (off the shelf) is 3 front and 2 rear. If it's an R33/34 then you need 6 adjustment settings on the front and 3 on the rear, standard (off the shelf) is 5 front and 2 rear.

You should also be using spherical bearing links on the bars to give you the instantaneous effect, plus increase the feel as you need as little dampening of the response for track work. They will need regular replacement, even the Whiteline greasable and dust covered ones. Just like brake pads they will wear out, they are a consumable after all.

To give some adjustment for the usage patterns that you have, you can't run spring rates that high, anything much over 5 kg/mm front and 4 kg/mm rear will negate the effect of any adjustment (bars, shocks or geometry) that you do. Use the bars to control the roll, that's their job after all and then adjust the rear subframe geometry to suite the traction requirements. At the moment you have nothing to adjust that will help with your problems.

Cheers

Gary

[Trust33]

My guess is the off the shelf 24 mm front and 22 mm rear

yeah, seen as though the car is driven on the street nearly every day i diddnt want to go for the thicker swaybars. i had to trade off somewhere.

you should also be using spherical bearing links on the bars to give you the instantaneous effect

are they the links that mount both sides of the front swaybar on 33's?

[salad]

Yes, they attach the lever arm of the swaybar to the LCA/upright.

[Sydneykid]

yeah, seen as though the car is driven on the street nearly every day i diddnt want to go for the thicker swaybars. i had to trade off somewhere.

are they the links that mount both sides of the front swaybar on 33's?

But you chose heavy spring rates, seems like the wrong trade off. Why? Because you can easily adjust the bar (antiroll) rates but you can't adjust the spring rates.

Cheers

Gary

[260DET]

My problem with using big anti roll bars is the amount of weight they transfer to the outside wheels in a corner. With a RWD car that may not be a crucial problem in the front but not so good for the rears, which afterall are also trying to lay down power as well as go round a corner.

So in theory I'd prefer heavier springs but not as high as Jap spec, together with a fair to large sized ARB in the front and a small or nonexistant one in the rear. As I said, theory, as a general approach to setting up a dual purpose road/track car, assuming whatever it takes would be spent on dampers.