Pad Choices

[BOZ22N]

Hi,

I have read through the brake pad user ratings post and found both of these pads to have good feed back for track use, but sum have said that the DS2500's have worn the rotors out quick??? there has not been a lot of feedback with the project mu's, but what is there is saying that they are all good.

My question is what is better for track use? I am a newbie to the track and i dont want anything that bites too hard yet. I am currently running R33 GTR brembo's all round with stock rotors and EBC green pads on a R33 GTS-T. The front rotors are worn out and will be replaced with DBA4000's very soon.

Also will it affect the brake response/feel too much if i run the EBC's on the rear and one of these on the fronts?

Thanks,

Ryan

[djr81]

Hi,

I have read through the brake pad user ratings post and found both of these pads to have good feed back for track use, but sum have said that the DS2500's have worn the rotors out quick??? there has not been a lot of feedback with the project mu's, but what is there is saying that they are all good.

My question is what is better for track use? I am a newbie to the track and i dont want anything that bites too hard yet. I am currently running R33 GTR brembo's all round with stock rotors and EBC green pads on a R33 GTS-T. The front rotors are worn out and will be replaced with DBA4000's very soon.

Also will it affect the brake response/feel too much if i run the EBC's on the rear and one of these on the fronts?

Thanks,

Ryan

Ok, a few things.

1. DS2500's are not hard on rotors. IMHO it is a little bit the other way around with relatively high wear rates on the pads.

2. How much are the HC pads?

3. If you are a track newb then DS2500 is more than enough pad.

4. Don't buy 4000 series DBA rotors - there is a whole thread on how shite they are somewhere.

5. Rear pads can be anything. Just get something that works from cold & matches the friction coefficients of the front pads.

Not having used the HC, but from the specs there doesn't appear to be a huge amount of difference between them & the 2500's. The friction coefficients are the same but the HC appear to have a braoder working range. The 2500s are streetable, but I cannot comment on the HC's as I just don't know. The flat friction coefficient of the 2500's is one of their best attirbutes - particularly if you are new to track silliness.

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/e/product/hc-plus.html

http://www.raceshopper.com/ferodo_compounds.shtml

Edited April 3, 2008 by djr81

[BOZ22N]

Thanks mate, I cannot find the friction coefficient of the ebc green pads? Will these be ok to use on the back with the DS2500's or the HC's on the front?

What rotors would you recommend?

I will try and find that thread.

Cheers.

[djr81]

Thanks mate, I cannot find the friction coefficient of the ebc green pads? Will these be ok to use on the back with the DS2500's or the HC's on the front?

What rotors would you recommend?

I will try and find that thread.

Cheers.

Green stuff claim 0.55 for some of them which is about right. Not sure what you have of the choices, however.

http://www.ebcbrakes.com/greenstuffinfo.html

Rotors. Hmm.

I would recommend you either go expensive eg a Project Mu 2 piece rotor or a DBA 5000 series or go cheap, say an RDA rotor from the group buy.

[gslrallysport]

You will have read about them in the users guide, but the QFM A1RM is easily better than either EBC Green Stuff or DS2500s in terms of performance, and on par with then for dust/wear etc. The Brembo A1RMs are $149 front or rear. Also the A1RM will work from cold, whereas alot of pads at this level don't. We run them in the front of the rally car, and even as our daily delivery vehicle when the other car is out is fine.

A1RM specs are:

Cold Co-ef 0.40

Hot Co-ef 0.48

Temp Range 0-780

Even if you only got them for the rears they still should save you a few bucks over the Project Mu etc.

[Eug]

Pad Choices

use the maxi ones for those heavy nights

[nm8u]

hey dude i couldnt be bothered to read what anyone else wrote but i bought the geniun ones for mine. they are heitachi brand pritty expensive to. but dude they are awesome. car stops on a coin.

really happy with them. that also could be a option when changing pads.

later man.

[Bok boK GuN]

Would like more review on the HC+ pads

[Sydneykid]

These are the ratings we use for selecting track use pads;

Operating Temperature Range

Initial Torque

Fade Resistence

Release

Consistency

Modulation

Pad Wear

Rotor Wear

Looking at only the CoF (maximum at one termperature) is far too simplistic a guide. As a beginner, from the above list, I would first be looking at Initial Torque, Release and Consistency. An example, a pad with a simple CoF may (if the temperature is right) give you good initial bite. But as a beginner you may have a tendancy to lock the brakes, hence a pad with poor Release characteristics would be bad for you. Consistency is equally a no brainer, it's no good having good brake response on one lap/corner and then lousy on the next. You need to learn to trust the feel you get back from the brakes, so it needs to be the same lap after lap. You won't learn anything from driving with inconsistent braking performance.

As you become more proficient, Modulation becomes more important, as it enables you to feel for the point just before lock up. A pad with a simple (high) CoF may have poor Modulation and you can't effectively adjust the braking pressure due to their lack of feel.

Juggling pads with differing Initial Torque front to rear can be an advantage when you don't have brake bias adjustment or ABS. For example, using slightly lower Initial Torque pads in the rear can avoid that end of the car locking up with the first corner hard stab on the brakes needed on many tracks.

Obviously if the budget is tight, then looking at Rotor Wear and Pad Wear are relevant. But based on my experience you are not going to find a pad compound that is suitable for track day use that is gentle on the rotors and/or doesn't wear out fast itself.

You haven't mentioned the ratio of road to track use that you anticipate, so giving a single pad recommendation is difficult. If you do a lot of both, then I would recommend changing pads for the track at the same time as you have the wheels off to change to the track day tyres. If you don't have track day ("R" compound) tyres then pretty much any decent pad you select will outbrake road tyres. If that's the case then Hawke HPS (70% road and 30% track) or HP+ (30% road and 70% track) would be the go. HP+ are a very aggressive pad with good feel, they are a bit dusty and will wear the rotors reasonably, you get nothing for nothing. If you are changing pads for track days, then Hawke HT10's would be top of my list. As you get more proficient, then DTC70 in the front and maybe DTC60 in the rear, they have huge initial bite and so require some skill in their modulation.

Not so simple is it?

Cheers

Gary

[phunky_monkey]

I can't give you an in depth look into pads like Gary can, but I run the Project MU HC+ pads on my 180, and am really happy with them. I get minimal fade in my setup, (F:S14 calipers, project MU rotors, braided lines, good fluid, R: stock calipers, braided lines, RDA rotors, DS2500 pads) and my rotors seem to be holding up very well also. A friend runs them in his R32 for track work as well, and he can't speak highly enough of them.

I've only run the 2500's on the rear of my car, and for 1 track day, so I can't comment on their performance.

Dane

[R34GTX]

I have always said that the Hawke HP+ is one of the best performing pads to get. I swear by them. Never had any doubts with regards to the cars stopping ability/power whether it be on the track or on the road.

These are the ratings we use for selecting track use pads;

Operating Temperature Range

Initial Torque

Fade Resistence

Release

Consistency

Modulation

Pad Wear

Rotor Wear

Looking at only the CoF (maximum at one termperature) is far too simplistic a guide. As a beginner, from the above list, I would first be looking at Initial Torque, Release and Consistency. An example, a pad with a simple CoF may (if the temperature is right) give you good initial bite. But as a beginner you may have a tendancy to lock the brakes, hence a pad with poor Release characteristics would be bad for you. Consistency is equally a no brainer, it's no good having good brake response on one lap/corner and then lousy on the next. You need to learn to trust the feel you get back from the brakes, so it needs to be the same lap after lap. You won't learn anything from driving with inconsistent braking performance.

As you become more proficient, Modulation becomes more important, as it enables you to feel for the point just before lock up. A pad with a simple (high) CoF may have poor Modulation and you can't effectively adjust the braking pressure due to their lack of feel.

Juggling pads with differing Initial Torque front to rear can be an advantage when you don't have brake bias adjustment or ABS. For example, using slightly lower Initial Torque pads in the rear can avoid that end of the car locking up with the first corner hard stab on the brakes needed on many tracks.

Obviously if the budget is tight, then looking at Rotor Wear and Pad Wear are relevant. But based on my experience you are not going to find a pad compound that is suitable for track day use that is gentle on the rotors and/or doesn't wear out fast itself.

You haven't mentioned the ratio of road to track use that you anticipate, so giving a single pad recommendation is difficult. If you do a lot of both, then I would recommend changing pads for the track at the same time as you have the wheels off to change to the track day tyres. If you don't have track day ("R" compound) tyres then pretty much any decent pad you select will outbrake road tyres. If that's the case then Hawke HPS (70% road and 30% track) or HP+ (30% road and 70% track) would be the go. HP+ are a very aggressive pad with good feel, they are a bit dusty and will wear the rotors reasonably, you get nothing for nothing. If you are changing pads for track days, then Hawke HT10's would be top of my list. As you get more proficient, then DTC70 in the front and maybe DTC60 in the rear, they have huge initial bite and so require some skill in their modulation.

Not so simple is it?

Cheers

Gary

[BOZ22N]

Thanks every one for your help, Gary where would you recommend purchasing the Hawke HT10's from? My car is running on RT615's so I can compete in the club sprint class at superlap. The car is mainly used for track days and alike so I will be safe using the pads on the street the ratio is probably 80/20 track/street.

Thanks again,

Ryan

[BOZ22N]

Right now I have to choose again, the Hawk’s are $395.00 delivered and the DS2500's are $355.00 delivered?

From what I have read the DS2500's seem to be more designed for street tyres where the HT10's are more for Semi slicks? As I am running RT615's (which have a very high tread wear index for semis) I am a little undecided? I have not heard much about how savage the HT10's are on rotors, does anyone have any feedback?

Which ever way I go I think they will out perform me but I am just making sure I get the ones that will suit me the best.

Thanks

Ryan

[scathing]

From what I have read the DS2500's seem to be more designed for street tyres where the HT10's are more for Semi slicks? As I am running RT615's (which have a very high tread wear index for semis) I am a little undecided? I have not heard much about how savage the HT10's are on rotors, does anyone have any feedback?

I run DS2500s in my car (350Z w/ Brembos and RE55S). It takes me a good 10mins to fade them out, and since its almost always my pedal going mushy its more a fluid problem than a pad problem. One of my mates used to race Formula Fords and he ran DS2500s.

They're more than adequate for R-Comps, if you're only talking about sprint sessions (which you are if you're prepping the car for Superlap). The DS2500s are more "streetable" than the DS3000s since the latter need activation temperature to reach their peak operating range, but if you're talking about a 3-5 lap supersprint then the DS2500s will suit you just fine. They work from cold and, even when overheated, don't lose their friction.

I'm not familiar with the HC+ pads so I can't comment, but don't write the Ferodos off as a "street only" pad.

[BOZ22N]

I run DS2500s in my car (350Z w/ Brembos and RE55S). It takes me a good 10mins to fade them out, and since its almost always my pedal going mushy its more a fluid problem than a pad problem. One of my mates used to race Formula Fords and he ran DS2500s.

They're more than adequate for R-Comps, if you're only talking about sprint sessions (which you are if you're prepping the car for Superlap). The DS2500s are more "streetable" than the DS3000s since the latter need activation temperature to reach their peak operating range, but if you're talking about a 3-5 lap supersprint then the DS2500s will suit you just fine. They work from cold and, even when overheated, don't lose their friction.

I'm not familiar with the HC+ pads so I can't comment, but don't write the Ferodos off as a "street only" pad.

Thanks mate.

[Sydneykid]

Right now I have to choose again, the Hawk’s are $395.00 delivered

Is that fronts and rears?

As I am running RT615's (which have a very high tread wear index for semis) I am a little undecided? I have not heard much about how savage the HT10's are on rotors, does anyone have any feedback?

On the Improved Production Car we get a full season's racing out of DBA5000 series rotors with HT10's and even then they are not shot, but we change them in the off season anyway. On the Production Car the DBA5000 series rotors did the whole Bathurst 12 hour and still look OK for a couple of hours more.

Cheers

Gary

[Roy]

Personally i think DS2500s are the most over rated pad i haev tried. They are fine on the street, but nothing special on the track. I find they lack feel and are only a bit better then Race Brakes RB74 and about as good as Race Brakes Comp 2 pads.

I ran Endless CCX and love them. I have cracked a few set of rotors since installing these pads though, not sure if its related, could be?!?!?!?!?! But for stopping the car, no fade and to me the most important thing is feel and pedal modulation, best pad i have used. I have found the DS2500s feel pretty dead under foot with poor modulation in my car. I even tried a second set in case the first set were duds and the second set was no better.

So i would suggest trying one of the other brands that ppl are recommending

[Sydneykid]

Personally i think DS2500s are the most over rated pad i haev tried. They are fine on the street, but nothing special on the track. I find they lack feel and are only a bit better then Race Brakes RB74 and about as good as Race Brakes Comp 2 pads.

I ran Endless CCX and love them. I have cracked a few set of rotors since installing these pads though, not sure if its related, could be?!?!?!?!?! But for stopping the car, no fade and to me the most important thing is feel and pedal modulation, best pad i have used. I have found the DS2500s feel pretty dead under foot with poor modulation in my car. I even tried a second set in case the first set were duds and the second set was no better.

So i would suggest trying one of the other brands that ppl are recommending

I tend to agree with Roy on the DS2500's, they haven't impressed me the few times we have used them. We even tried the newer Ferodo DS2.11 recently and they weren't impressive either, they wore quickly and the initial bite wasn't there.

Endless and cracking brake rotors seem to go hand in hand. That and their rediculously high prices.

Cheers

Gary

[BOZ22N]

Yer that is both ends is that good or am i getting ripped off? The guy you recommended never got back to me

Thanks Roy I have defiantly taken that on board.

Is that fronts and rears?

On the Improved Production Car we get a full season's racing out of DBA5000 series rotors with HT10's and even then they are not shot, but we change them in the off season anyway. On the Production Car the DBA5000 series rotors did the whole Bathurst 12 hour and still look OK for a couple of hours more.

Cheers

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Yer that is both ends is that good or am i getting ripped off? The guy you recommended never got back to me

Thanks Roy I have defiantly taken that on board.

That's a good price for both ends, go for it. Is it local supply or imported direct?

Cheers

Gary